Yggdrasil Refined - New Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 (Yggdrasil A2) Sound Impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by drgumbybrain, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Something Rhodium plated. And it must be from Nordost.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Good point. Let's compromise. @schiit should only upgrade Gumbys that belong to SBAF members.
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I think what Marv is getting at, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that everyone in theory says, "I bought this for the upgrade potential and would be happy to pay money to upgrade," but in reality, it ends up more like, "YOU FUCKIN' SHIT TWAT, I BOUGHT MY DAC FOUR YEARS AGO, AND YOU'RE ALREADY UPGRADING IT? GIVE IT TO ME FOR FREE AND BUMP ME AHEAD IN LINE, YOU ASS! AND COVER SHIPPING THREE WAYS! AND THIS TIME MAKE MY Bifrost Multibit MORE THAN 10 BITS, PRAISE AMIR! IF YOU CAN'T, THEN REFUND ME IN ENTIRETY AND LET ME KEEP THE DAC, PLUS SEND ME THE LATEST TOPPING DAC TO MAKE UP FOR YOUR LACK OF VISION."

    In other words, they understand the inherent risk of buying a DAC that gets upgraded tomorrow on paper, but don't accept it when it actually happens.

    I'm sure that's a lesser horror story for Schiit. I'm sure their customers did worse in reality. But, again, I could be wrong.

    I get it...you bought something marketed that could be upgraded. But I'm also inclined to believe people suck and deserve nothing.
     
  4. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    That's a perfect way to explain it @Hands and must be puzzling/frustrating/hilarious for Schiit.

    Sell upgrade-able dac, sell upgrades, get heck for selling upgrades.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. saint.panda

    saint.panda Friend

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    I'd be curious about the data on vocal, dissatisfied customers vs. happy but silent upgraders. Going by the upgrade queue, the latter probably prevails and speaks to a right product strategy.
     
  6. SnowPuppy

    SnowPuppy Facebook Friend

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    All good points. People also get pissed when someone comes out with a new model soon after you buy one. Like my Dad who bought the Bryston BDA-1 DAC when not long after they came out with the BDA-2. 20 year warranty for DAC obsolete a couple months later. DAC technology changes a lot and upgradability is much better than new pricey DAC. They will do many Yggdrasil upgrades and it is a good way to earn more money and please the customer. Sure pleased me as a customer.
     
  7. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    I don't think everyone should be left out of upgrades because of some crybabies.
     
  8. Dotard

    Dotard Acquaintance

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    Unfortunately this is the kind of thing that can have the potential to have lasting impact. I'm sure the upgrade queue today is healthy, but a few empty cans making noise online about the injustice and inhumanity of it all can have reverberating effects on future interest. These are the dynamics that allow a few loud incoherent cry babies to cause a situation where 'this is why we can't have nice things'. Those silent majority are happily giving Schiit current generation business while the imbeciles online making a fuss are taking away the next.

    Hopefully Schiit are making the case for themselves about why this policy actually benefits customers - having upgrade-able audio gear on the consumer side is almost unheard of and we should be fighting for this very hard. Unfortunately, the silent majority might not be enough.
     
  9. winders

    winders boomer

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    This isn't Jason's nor Mike's first rodeo. The fears expressed in this post are not well founded.
     
  10. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I doubt Mike and Jason went into this blind, nor do I think they are capricious enough to stop offering upgrades for items they sold in part on the basis of their upgradability.
     
  11. captkirk

    captkirk Khan's BFF

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    No.

    I'm deeply satisfied that my Schiit DAC can potentially be upgraded, but I didn't make the purchase because of the possibility, nor do I feel entitled to upgrades.
     
  12. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    My only gripe with the Yggdrasil upgrade is it is going to mean a week or two of going back to the Bifrost Multibit. The price seems fair for a $2400 product, and better than a no-upgrade product option.
     
  13. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    There’ll always be whiners whatever they do, and they’ll always shout loudest. I don’t see Schiit stopping upgrades. I believe it must be quite lucrative for Schiit in the grander scheme of things. I expect it diminishes the value proposition and availability of second hand Schiit goods, and increases the chances of customer money heading their way.

    Scenario 1: Someone upgrades their Schiit DAC, instead of buying a new DAC.
    • Reduces availability of Schiit DACs on the used market, forcing more people to buy new.
    • Brings more money their way, and not a competitors. Upgradeability having increased the likelihood of this.

    Scenario 2: Used Schiit DAC is put up for sale
    • Once a new version of a DAC is available it’s cheaper, better, and easier to just buy it new anyway. Rather than buy used and upgrade immediately. (At least it has been in the UK).
    • If a used DAC is still purchased there’s a higher possibility that someone would later spring for an upgrade, and warranty refresh.

    Scenario 3. f**k this Schiit, ODAC 4 lyfe.
    • Happily these dotardly wretches shall remain in the fiefdom of the redd kingdom, or so one hopes.

    Despite the bellyaching, from what is often a vocal minority, it appears as a win-win for Schiit. Assuming they make a profit on upgrades, and do not do it at cost.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  14. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    Back in the 1970s, Audio Research often had upgrades every few months. No internet back then, of course, but letters were written to magazines and some were published. As best as I can remember those letters were approximately split between "Audio Research are profiteering." and "It is great that Audio Research is working to improve their products". Human nature appears to not have changed on this sort of thing.
     
  15. SnowPuppy

    SnowPuppy Facebook Friend

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    Good point. And it was years before the Yggdrasil even got the Gen 5 upgrade.
     
  16. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    And then there were tons of audio products, over the years, making a big deal of being upgradeable but no upgrades appeared. I don't recall seeing anyone upset about that, which seems a little odd.
     
  17. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    What I find extremely disappointing is that Mike Moffat could not have anticipated the entire rise of the digital audio market and provided an upgradable platform in the 1970s that could have been kept current until today, encompassing all inputs, from SPDIF to USB to wireless streaming, that had all outputs including balanced and single-ended, fixed and variable, that also offered interface options that spanned knobs to touchscreens. What a crock! Upgradable upshmadable!

    (Note to humor-deprived: the above is very tongue in cheek. The problem with upgradable products is in anticipating coming changes and designing in a reasonable amount of modularity in order to address them. This does not mean that products can be upgraded forever, because we can't anticipate everything.)
     
  18. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    My personal favorite is the component vendors that obsolete a relatively new part before the design cycle can even finish.
     
  19. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Groan.

    I know this all too well.

    Oh, but wait: how about parts that simply never exist? As in, parts that *can* be specified using the part numbering system, but are never *actually* made? Those are fun too.
     
  20. Dotard

    Dotard Acquaintance

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    Good to hear. I wasn't trying to say one way or the other in this instance, only that I have personally seen cases where negative narratives can become a run away train and negatively impact a business. For a smaller company, that can be enough to make the difference.

    The fact is, upgrade-ability partially invites that conversation to take place, and you run the risk of negative sentiment each and every time on a regular basis. I do hope the marketing and engineering machine prevail and customers remain sensible.
     

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