ZMF EIKON & ZMF ATTICUS

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by gbeast, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Aww that's nice! I do like how wood grain tends to differ, each headphone is a little unique! Or in the case of that purple heart Atticus very unique! @zach915m how did the purple heart wood sound?
     
  2. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    I've heard this specific Atticus. Really liked it, not much different from the others, maybe a smidge more lively/clear up top compared to the cherry I heard. It's beautiful in person.
     
  3. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Like literally the only thing I could ask for from a Cherry is a smidge more lively up top... oh well

    Oh for kicks and giggles, I bought a RCA Grey Glass Vt 231 Jan-Chs tube, it's REALLY thick about the polar opposite of my Sylvania 6sn7GTs. I'm curious how the Eikon changes out of a REALLY warm thick syrupy amp
     
  4. Don Miller

    Don Miller Banned from FS; never sell me anything

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    Take a good look at the pic detailing where the cup meets the pad on these purpleheart atticus and be sure they are what you want. That said there are going to be some imperfections in the wood from time to time. I bet these would be a pair with a real fast sound. Good luck to the seller/trader.
     
  5. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Yea I saw the cracks, still I have/had a collection of mostly wood backs/open wood housed cans. I'm familiar with keeping them in good shape!

    I'm excited to see how the Camphor sounds once the cans actually get into peoples hands
     
  6. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Also fun, I had another... moment of Clarity with the Eikon this week, I honestly I think I'm going to just continue to enjoy the Cherry wood! The transparency is already amazing... I shot Jeremy at Garage 1217 an email yesterday, I was listening to the Eikon with my Ember II and my Sylvania 6sn7 gt White Label... an I noticed some... rattling from the piano featured in Miles Davis So What I'd never heard it before... I thought it was a defective on the part of well either the amp or headphone... Sure enough I purchased another mastering of that album [some HD Tracks 192/24 master blah blah blah...] listened to it with every headphone I owned out of every amp/dac I had and the rattling was even LOUDER and audible with my HE 4 and ES 10, out of my NFB 10ES2 and HM 901 with my Pico Power, the Balanced out of the NFB10ES2 and again the Ember II

    Going back to the quieter and sonically better MoFi master I had, I'm really impressed with the micro detail the Cherry Eikon is able to pull with the Ember II and the right tube, listening to better master with the Eikon out of my NFB 10ES2 didn't grab the detail... and I didn't even notice it out of the Ember II until I rolled out of my White Label to a Green Label Variant of the same 6sn7 Sylvania [which had a touch less clarity in exchange for a fuller sound] ... sure enough going back to the more detailed White label I noticed it, so now I'm going to try to not listen to it for a few days and hope I forget about it

    I'm concerned switching to a faster Wood with the Eikon isn't going to pair as well with the Cable and Tube I'm running with the Cherry model I have now.
     
  7. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Just shipped off the loaner Atticus and Eikon (both Padauk) and wanted to share my notes.

    TL;DR: The Atticus and Eikon are the best closed headphones I've heard, compared to the Audeze LCD-XC and Sony MDR-7506. Of the two, I prefer the Eikon. However, I would take the HD600 over either.

    BACKGROUND

    Rig is in my profile. These impressions were over the course of the last week and were not volume matched. Using a phone app, I shoot for 75-78 dB average. Brimar CV4033 tubes in the T3. Used the hi Z setting on the T3 as it provided more fullness down low and openness up top with the ZMF phones and is what I always use with the Senns. As a sanity check, I briefly tried the headphone output of my Peachtree Nova125 (TI IC: TPA6120A2), but the T3 was obviously superior with these 300-ohm dynamics.

    ZMF SHARED STRENGTHS
    • Comfortable despite the size and weight. Great pads. Not as comfortable as Utopia though.
    • Beautiful cups.
    • Good isolation.
    ZMF SHARED WEAKNESSES
    • Cable too short. 3m minimum for me as a living room listener. Utopia's 4m cable is heaven.
    • Inherent limitations of closed cup.
    • Despite superior driver technicalities, both still sounded weird/fake to me especially compared to the HD600.
    ATTICUS
    • My first impression/listen of these was the most favorable, and I got more annoyed with the sound signature over the course of the week. Ironically, I had the cup sides switched that first listen (with the cables on the correct sides for how I wore them)... They were fatiguing, and I'm not sure why. Perhaps driver / cup interactions with my ears? More midrange presence in its dip vs. the Eikon's dip? Either way, after a few days I mostly just left them in the box as I dreaded taking them out.
    • Too rolled off in the treble. This is OK if you're not listening to classical or music with cymbals. If you are, the lack of air was noticeable and distracting. I kept wanting to turn the volume up to get more air, but then the aforementioned fatigue got worse.
      • I feel the same re: air with the HD650/M most of the time, so they usually remain in their box too.
    • Sounded great with acoustic music! Great body and heft to guitar, and articulation on strings.
    • Slightly larger image size compared to Eikon. Maybe the stage is closer with them. Solo cello sounded awesome (Dvorak's Cello Concerto - Alisa Weilerstein with Czech Philharmonic Orchestra / Jiří Bělohlávek (Decca)).
    • After more extended sessions, the lack of subbass compared to the Eikon was also distracting to me.
    EIKON
    • More neutral frequency response jived much better with me.
      • My first impression with these was that I had finally heard subbass on a headphone. I liked it most of the time. Occasionally it was overbearing and a bit distracting.
      • Treble was much more extended. This made classical music and cymbals much more enjoyable.
    • The measured midrange "dip" was not that noticeable to me for some reason.
    • No fatigue for me with these like with the Atticus.
    • Image size was a bit smaller and/or the stage was further away. Helped with orchestral classical a bit, but the trade off being they sounded slightly less intimate with smaller ensembles, acoustic and rock.
    EMOTIONAL CONNECTION: WHAT SEALED THE DEAL FOR ME
    My wife and I have been introducing our eight-month-old daughter to non-classical/acoustic music more frequently. We've been taking a music and motion class with her, and I sometimes dance (i.e., my poor excuse for it) with her to music at home. For some reason, she loves the first track on Linkin Park's new album, One More Light, titled "Nobody Can Save Me." Edit: RIP Chester. :( We usually listen on a UE Boom Bluetooth speaker in her nursery, and I get emotional every time I hear the lyric: "Been searching somewhere out there for what’s been missing right here" with my little girl in my arms. Probably because I basically missed 25% of her first six months due to being slammed at work. I hadn't really listened to the album on my living room rig before this week.

    I first played the song with the Eikon, and it seemed super slow to me and fake/synthetic sounding. Weird. The song/album is heavily doctored and much of it is electronic, so that wasn't the syntheticness I heard. It just didn't sound like the same song to me. Subbass was welcome though.

    Next up was the Atticus. This surprisingly sounded a bit better overall to me, being less slow and fake sounding, but that fatigue set in pretty quickly so off they came and back to their box for the final time.

    With the HD600, the song sounded the most like what I remembered and had repeatedly listened to with my little girl.* As soon as the chorus started, I got emotional and teary. As opposed to the weirdness I heard with the ZMF phones, the HD600 communicated both the music and the memories associated with it to me. I find this happens most frequently with the HD600, not only with this song. HD650 (stock) probably second and Utopia third.

    It's the last point that has me constantly thinking about (1) selling the Utopia despite its vastly superior technicalities, comfort, and awesome cable and/or (2) trying something like a ZDS or Black Widow 2 that better communicates the soul of the music to me through the HD600. Maybe I could find something optimized for both the HD600 and Utopia. T3 is the best amp I've owned at making this emotional connection, but that's only comparing to the Valhalla 2. I think the T3 synergizes better with the HD650/M than the HD600.

    Thanks to @Aleatorius for his generosity and sharing these headphones and to @MrButchi and @sphinxvc for running the loaners so smoothly!

    * No, I'm not equating my living room rig's sound quality to the UE Boom's. C'mon now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  8. BenjaminBore

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    A question for you fine fellas. How does the Eikon and Atticus present vocals in the middle stage. ie are they forward/image as large/tall as the rest of the stage like a HD650. Or are they say like the Elear/Utopia where the imaging particularly at the centre is quite small. HD800 being somewhere in between. Cheers
     
  9. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    Yep, those were mine before I sold them and got my HD800. They were fantastic in their niche (basshead cans,) but I prefer the Eikons. Next chance I get, I'll probably get a pair of Eikons again to match my HD800.
     
  10. Mshenay

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    The Atticus pushes them a little forward, the Eikon has them not pulled back but... not as intimate. Height an depth depends on the track, but all things being equal. The Atticus nudges the vocals forward, where as the Eikon does not

    Nice! I'm with you there, I really need to plan to get an HD 800 to match my Eikon! As much as I love my modded HE 4, the @Bill-P modded HD 800 I heard really mopped the floor of my Hifiman. Granted bass wasn't quite as technically taut or linear, being a Planar vs a Dynamic, but literally everything else was a step forward. An honestly the only time that linear planar bass matters imo is during Electronica. I still haven't found anything that wobble like a nice Hifiman does... including the LCD 2 Non F... it was too fat for my tastes when I heard it, maybe a cleaner model would impress me. Either way the HD 800 is certainly on my list! An there have been quite a few of them for sale quite cheaply lately >.> here's to hoping Sennheiser releases another HD #XXX flagship this year so more amazingly priced HD 800 can hit the market!
     
  11. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    Thank you, my main points of reference are the TH900, HD650, and HD800. Which would you say each is closest to, and how close would they be?
     
  12. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    I've only heard the a modded HD 800 and a stock HD 650. I owned the HD 600 for a time, though I've never spent more than an hour with the HD 650 and HD 800

    What I recall from my HD 600 was an amazing sense of warmth! I ran it out of my Vali 1, and it was... liquid. Gorgeous to listen to, I didn't experience the "veil" as people described it, but the thickness of the sound or the over abundance of decay did mask over some finer details. So that said, the Atticus has that same really beautiful quality, without as much of the masking. I still feel compared to the Eikon, the Atticus has a more beautiful euphoric mid range, while it brings mid-range detail into focus that beautiful mid range does detract some times from the transients else where in the spectrum, shifts in pitch on the release of a bell for example, as the instrument settles down to a silent state it warbles a little, the Atticus doesn't quite resolve that kind of detail as well as the Eikon does

    The Eikon more or less reminds of me the very short time I spent with the HD 800, very tactile, with an amazing sense of detail. But I only heard the HD 800 with 1 track and it wasn't stock so I can't say how it will compare to a stock HD 800, but a natural but well controlled warmth, good speed throughout the entire spectrum as well

    Though... from my experience with the TH X00, the Atticus is going to have the bigger FUN bass impactful bass I expected of my TH X00, the Eikon... has an abundance of both power and Control, very taut very heavy and very well textured. Though it doesn't have the SLAM that the Atticus does. Also interesting, the Atticus pulls a little more Mirco detail up top than the Eikon does, weird noises like page turnings, or breathing, but the thicker mid range and bass also mask some of the energy in percussion. Where as the Eikon has the same if not more detail, it doesn't draw as much attention to those breaths or page flips, but it resolves them more clearly.

    Igor levit's Aria with 30 Variations is one of my favorite tracks to listen to for detail, it has everything, good powerful release in the low notes, 7 audible breaths, page flips and some other kind of weirdness way in the back ground. The Atticus only pulls 5/7 breaths along with the wierd background noise, they are audibly louder than what the Eikon presents [at the same volume ofc] where as the Eikon get's all 7 breaths, the presentation isn't as loud but it's... clearer. Same with the background noise, it's very clear very much there but it doesn't stand out as much as it does on the Atticus

    To answer your question, Atticus may be the epitome of the modded HD 650 sound [in closed back form] warmth with detail, vs the Eikon which offers detail with warmth

    An I'm by no means saying the HD 800 is better than the HD 650, as I've yet to compare a fully modded set of both Sennhesier,
     
  13. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    If your T3 is a "Torpedo 3" , then I can understand that explains your experience with the synergy of that amp being better with the Senn headphones..
    It is a sweet beautiful sounding spacious amp well suited for higher impedance cans,
    And while Eikon/Atticus share similar higher impedance, they do way much better with more powerful amps.
     
  14. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    What exactly is the power output on the T3? The Ember II runs around 600 mW into a 300Ohm load
     
  15. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    Thank you for your impressions, would say that either presents vocals like the HD650 do? Or how close would you say?
     
  16. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    I can't answer that, haven't heard the HD 650 with a vocal track I know in a long time. I will say the Atticus out of my Ember II brought back strong memories of my time with the HD 600, had that same beautifully thick reach out and touch you kinda of quality to the vocals that the HD 600 did with my Vali 1
     
  17. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Well, this is just a guess but
    Ember prob sounds 3x more powerful..
    Remember the Ember is a hybrid so you have tube feeding current devices (solid state).

    While Torpedo amp is essentially driver tubes feeding a Transformer output.
    Nice, but not as powerfull.

    Edit:
    I have heard both the Ember and the Torpedo but not on same occasion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  18. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    It's a shame they don't have some actual specifications :/, though I guess I doubt how powerful the Ember II is... still I'd really like to demo the T3 for my self! I run basically everything I own out of my Ember [except for my HE 4] I'm curious to see how even the Eikon differs out of it, among other things.

    Also for kicks and giggles, my GO v2+ arrived today! I'll be posting my impressions of it with the Eikon here shortly. I'm curious to see how the little guy drives the Eikon,
     
  19. zonto

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    re: Torpedo 3
    Other specs from beezar.com:
    • Frequency Response: + or - 0.3dB from 20 - 15KHz, -1dB at 20KHz
    • S/N Ratio: greater than 95dB with 32 ohm loads
    • THD: Less than 0.037% with 300 ohm load, less than 0.06% with 32 ohm load
    • Crosstalk: better than 95dB with 32 ohm load, 86dB with 32 ohm load
     
  20. a44100Hz

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    Only half an hour of use and I can already tell I prefer the Eikon to the Atticus. If you're a 650 junkie, I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Eikon over the Atticus. Tonality sounds more natural to me, vocals more intimate, and the bass extension is a welcome feature. This is from memory as the Atticus is gone now, but if my Genelec monitors are my personal golden standard for music listening, the Eikon is several steps closer to capturing that experience than the Atticus was. Not that the Atticus is bad, it's not, but it didn't grip me in the same way, the "getting sucked into the music" way. Dynamics seem better. I'll expand on my Eikon impressions in a few days.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017

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