ZMF EIKON & ZMF ATTICUS

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by gbeast, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. Pecksniffian

    Pecksniffian New

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    Thinking of getting an Eikon or Atticus, coming from a THX00. I have a Modi Multibit and iCan, and always use the Xbass and 3d features on it.

    My musical preferences point me to the Eikon from what I’ve read, but as a known “basshead”, I’m wondering if Atticus is the way to go. Here are some thoughts, help deciding is appreciated.

    Bass
    I like powerful, rumbling sub bass more than a punchy mid bass, so that kinda points me towards Eikon. I definitely get annoyed/disappointed when sub bass is called for, but is rolled off.

    Mids
    I also like forward mids and listen to a lot of classical and acoustic music, and prefer “thick”, “rich”, “musical”, etc. presentation here for instruments like the cello and female vocals. The Eikon descriptions as having a “thinner” midrange than the Atticus concerns me here.

    Treble
    I can be sensitive to treble at times with the X00. Mainly with high notes in piano songs. I tried a DT990 once and it was brutal. But I do generally like the details that can be heard in this region, especially since I think it makes music more “lively” and “exciting” and “detailed”

    Stage stuff
    I play a lot of games with headphones, so big soundstage is good. Battlefield games would be a good benchmark for me. Especially when the rumbling explosions are thrown into the mix.

    Looking to buy in about a month, please help!
     
  2. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    It does sound to me like Eikon might be more to your liking. Obviously a demo is the best way to find out, but that isn't always possible.

    When you mentioned the sub bass roll off that was one of the things that bugged me about the Atticus when I demoed it. The Eikon does have some roll off around 6-8Khz, but it never bugged me too much...of course YMMV.

    For a closed back it has a good headstage IMO, but I'm not a 'stagehead' by any means. I've never tried with a Modi M/B - iCan either, but I think those should be fine. Of course I think some upgrades would do wonders, but I have no idea of your budget (even the Lyr 3 W/DAC would be phenomenal IMO).

    Good luck!
     
  3. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    Truth.

    I think Jinxy hit it on the head. I ran the Eikon / Lyr 3 at work ever since the Lyr 3 was released. Very good combo. I also went from the Emu Teak to the Eikon, so I appreciate why you like it.

    Good luck.
     
  4. Pecksniffian

    Pecksniffian New

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    ^^thanks for the feedback. Eikon has been the direction I’m heading so it’s nice to get some affirmation. Atticus proponents, please feel free to stir the pot.

    I used an SZ-2000 for quite a while before getting the X00. I really liked the sub bass on that but the rest of the sound wasn’t worth using it just for that. I think the Eikon will tick all the boxes for me—strong sub bass rumble, nice mids, good isolation, etc. Now it’ll just be a waiting game til the EOM.

    No budget for improving the rest of the chain yet, but eventually I plan on upgrading the DAC and amp around the ZMF.
     
  5. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Well...

    I'm #teamatticus, so I'm biased the other way. The one thing that bugged me was the recessed lower mids on the Eikon, that I mostly heard in male vocals. I'm a mid-aholic/vocal-aholic... But the Eikon's bass is more balanced. Sub-bass is more present, as the Atticus tends to glow in mid-bass.

    I will warn you that both headphones show their weaknesses in dealing with complex orchestral pieces. But that's mostly a function of any closed headphone's struggle to stage. If you crave staging, you might get disappointed. Strings tend to blend together, brass tends to blend together. I guess that depends on how critical your listening is, when you're just using your headphones for casual music enjoyment.

    I just found the Atticus a bit more engaging, and a bit more fun. And it was fantastic with the Lyr3 (no DAC) But I'm mostly a rock/jazz guy.

    I was lucky enough to listen to @captkirk 's Auteur recently, and it seemed to somewhat address my mid issue with the Eikon, but its still there. Staging is improved. The most complicated thing I listened to was Aerosmith with the Boston Pops, and strings did seem a bit more "independent", but that could be expectation bias...

    edit - My informal statistics say #teamatticus is about 39%, #teameikon is about 59%, and the rest is the Psalm effect..
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  6. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    @Pecksniffian

    Objectively speaking I'd make the argument that the Atticus actually measures better than the Eikons.

    Eikon:
    [​IMG]

    Atticus:
    [​IMG]

    For most music, and for most people, I think that upper midrange suckout 1.5-4kHz on the Eikon is more a of critical flaw than the 100Hz bump on the Atticus. I like the Eikon but I found that the mids varied a lot depending on the music you listen to. You can read my full impressions here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/zmf-eikon-zmf-atticus.2929/page-33

    Of course, if you're willing to do EQ a lot of this goes out the window. If I was to own the Eikon I'd probably EQ up the midrange 1.5-4KHz.
     
  7. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I think most equal-loudness curves (Fletcher-Munson, etc) suggest a dip around 3k due to how we perceived sound. I think this is why the dip on the Eikon is less pronounced than the graph suggests, and why I thought the Atticus sounded very thick. I think it's also why most people in subjective impressions thought the Eikon was the more neutral of the two.

    Or, maybe I'm deaf and dumb, in which case ignore me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  8. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    I agree it does look better 'on paper', but Atticus never engaged me as much as the Eikon. The thickness Elnrik is describing may very well be why.

    That being said, there's obvious fans of both cans, so YMMV for sure...many well respected ears here prefer Atticus. I do believe Atticus is more amp picky than Eikon which could also be a factor, but I've heard them both sound good on modest gear.

    Again, good luck!
     
  9. Pecksniffian

    Pecksniffian New

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    ^^i appreciate the objective evidence provided above. I don’t necessarily think that a flat FR graph is entirely what I’m after. My most disappointing purchase so far has been the PSB M4U2, which from what I’ve seen, is fairly flat throughout the FR spectrum, except for the major sub bass roll off. It’s just plain “boring” to me...

    Ideally I won’t be using EQ, but may consider adding a few dB (6-10) to ~30 Hz of either depending on my impressions and given application. I could add some to the midrange as well as needed, so the dip in the Eikon isn’t too concerning. But on a personal and financial level, I’d really like to not have to EQ at all.

    Headphones sure are funny though, I’ve read a a lot about the Eikon and Atticus, and there sure is a lot of contradictory information coming from what seems to be objective sources...hence my trip to SBAF, where the info appears to be less subjective than other sites.

    As far as open vs. closed goes, I don’t mind s loss of separation as a trade off for more visceral bass and isolation; however, if the auteur slams as hard as the Eikon or Atticus (with or without EQ) I’d seriously consider it as well.

    Side note: I’m a bit annoyed by the “paper test” videos pushed by many as being evidence for how hard something hits. I get that you can see the paper moving, so naturally you’d feel that as bass. But there’s no way to actually quantify it just by viewing...does anyone actually have a way to measure generated pressure as a function of loudness at a constant frequency? Seems to me like for the hardest hitting cans, the air pressure generated by a 30 Hz tone would be proportional to the loudness without having a roll off before reaching unlistenable levels...
     
  10. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    @Pecksniffian If closed isn't a requirement you might want to consider something like the Hifiman HE-500. It is VERY open but it also sounds VERY good with deep tight bass, present midrange etc. Audeze might be an alternative too, the LCD-2 I think is a little "dull" and muted sounding but you might like the X or the LCD-3. There are some decent second hand deal around on those two. Or the Auteur of course, and I think it looks fantastic personally, but if you like deep tight bass orthos/planars should at least be considered.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
  11. Pecksniffian

    Pecksniffian New

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    Thanks for the advice. I’ve considered planars for sure, but generally speaking, I’ve more or less decided on going with a ZMF product after countless hours of internet research. Really trying to narrow down which one at this point. I might still end up with a TH900 or TH909 as a “safe” option given my affinity for copious amounts of tactile subbass. I feel the need to feel the subbass more than to just hear it....so far Atticus and Eikon are the best contenders for that aspect of it, while still apparently hitting all the hifi buzzwords with aplomb. Starting to consider the Aeolus more now though, since I think there’s a lot of potential to be had in gaming and for music with a more open set...

    Decisions, decisions...
     
  12. Rustin Cohle

    Rustin Cohle FKA jazztherapist

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  13. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    @Pecksniffian

    Burl woods are my favorite, damn those look gorgeous.

    Regarding Eikon vs Atticus, I feel like the dynamic presentation is more different than the tone, even though there are differences there as well. A lot of the tone comes down to the pads too.

    Eikon with Ori pads gives the Eikon that little leading edge in the treble Atticus have, making it feel more incisive and snappy, with a mid-bass lift as well. Not quite as smooth and laid-back though, and a bit boomy.

    Eikon pads on the Atticus even out the bottom end but make them feel a little too bloomy in the midrange with the more tame upper mids through lower treble. The cup effect feels a bit too prominent in this case.

    I do prefer both with the stock pads but it's fun to mess with. Haven't tried non-perf Universe, Aeolus, or Auteur pads on either.

    Eikon has a sense of control and firmness to it that Atticus lacks. Decay is faster all around on Eikon, but attacks feel a bit smoother and more laid back. Atticus has a more immediate sense of attack (hence some people feeling like the microdynamic contrast is a bit more pronounced), but it rings out more with extended decay. Atticus feels more like an in-room sound for lack of a better term.

    The cup decay effect is usually the quality new listeners remark on most frequently, even if they don't have the right words to describe it.

    I prefer Eikon for electronic music, hip-hop, and commercial-type music. The idea that the midrange dip is a "critical flaw" assumes the content is mixed a certain way. A lot of commercial mixes have a hot upper midrange so this dip actually feels more balanced than it might on one of my HFMs with a more flat response in that region. Atticus is my preference for music with more of an acoustic-instrument type focus, or older recordings that benefit from the mid-bass lift. Vocals are done well with both but the mixing style determines my preference.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  14. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    Insanity in 3 parts, with Grover speaking German.



    Who is Bert ?
     
  15. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    The gently used Camphor Burl Eikon's I picked up from @cskippy arrived today. At first I plugged them into a Gungnir MB A2 > BW2 chain, I played a few test vocal tracks and thought "uh oh, a bit recessed/lacking in detail". Then I switched to Gungnir > Jot and the vocal/mid detail came up. I then EQed the 1.5-4kHz up about 2 db and all is right ;)

    First impression is sweet sweet tone in general, especially the sub bass/bass end with its extension, control and balance. A half step behind my goto Clear's in low level resolution/detail and "air", and the described smoothness is the "good" (i.e. "organic", etc.) I think, but may be related to what @ButtUglyJeff notes about massed strings. Still, these are closed backs and a mile and half upgrade over my Nighthowls (edited: said 'Nighthawks' at first by mistake)!

    Anyways my drive by impressions. Thanks for the EQ tip @TwoEars.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  16. aamefford

    aamefford Nothing like chamberpot coffee

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    A bit jealous - I couldn’t quite swing them at this time. Glad they found a good home.
     
  17. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

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    [​IMG]

    I've been spending the entire evening with the Eikon (Eikon Suede installed currently) today. These aren't burned in at all yet, so please note that.

    I'm enjoying the tone and timbre of the Eikon so much. There is just something so pleasing about listening to them so far. They are also a pretty punchy headphone, however this might just be the nature of the DD vs the planars I am used to, rather than the Eikon in particular.

    The Verite drags more detail out of the recording I think. However, for a closed headphone to sound this good is a bit foreign to me.....and it costs $1400USD. How much does Audeze charge for the LCD-XC? $1800 I think? These are clearly the more proficient sounding headphone. I know Zach bumped up into the more expensive arena (still not $6000) with the Verite, but the Eikon is a $1400USD headphone! I'm stoked on that fact. You get real quality for your money with the Eikon imo. The build is really solid as well.

    Two things I have noticed

    -Glasses can be a problem. On my left side, they are breaking the seal and I am definitely losing bass, leading to a little bit of an imbalanced sound. Not a huge deal, but something to be noted.

    -The rod adjuster thingies are terrible (sorry Zach!) They are a pain to get them moving, and when you do they jump a million steps more than you want. Then you try to get them back down, and they go all the way to the beginning. Im over exaggerating a bit..but yeah, its not the best system. Maybe I need to figure out a trick that I haven't thought of yet. Will report back.
     
  18. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    I do wish my Atticus had the newer headband assembly. Its definitely superior to the older one. I wonder if its possible to change them out? I can't speak on the glasses aspect thou...
     
  19. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Yes it is

    Zach even has a vidja on how to do it on his channel, though its not hard - undo the 6 hex screws that hold the cups to the old forks, put threadlock on the new forks' screws, tighten.
     
  20. Claud

    Claud Living the ORFAS dream

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    I have not seen any Camphor Burl headphones in this thread so I am happy to contribute since mine arrived Monday.
    If someone would tell me how to post a picture from imgur.com I sure would appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019

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