ZMF New Headphones: Vérité and Aeolus

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    @BenjaminBore - I'd have to look at the pads to define them - if you want to put all three side by side - or at least two of them I can define them by looking at the face (part that touches the ear).

    I *believe* when it comes to audio jargon and adjectives, I think we all define a lot of these words differently.

    Is the HD650 modded? I know a lot can be done with mods - I'm just surprised to hear the HD650 you have slams harder than the Verite. I dunno could be true I suppose!
     
  2. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    Absolutely, everyone has varying definitions, which can often be conflated. I include my personal definitions to try and guard against misunderstandings though.

    The HD650 punched harder in the upper bass, but even though the frequency response goes further down that punch fades away pretty early. Whereas the Verite’s slam remains present all the way down into the sub bass. When combining various bass qualities the overall result is preferable on the Verite. I’m just describing bass in a granular fashion.

    EDIT: Yes the HD650 is modded with dynamat on the driver capsule, rear foam removed, and a hole cut in the front foam to expose the driver. The degree of effect of that dynamat is quite surprising.

    EDIT 2: A simpler way to put this is that the Verite may not strictly punch as hard, but they punch a great deal lower.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Note that I said HD650 = 1440P and HD800 = 1440P fed a supersampled 4K image. Let's pretend the former is using a lesser or no form of AA.

    Then think about how well you can see tiny details in the background of a 3D scene. 4K image supersampled on a 1440P display is going to look very nice.

    These are not small details to overlook! ;)

    I would argue the HD800's strengths over the HD600/650 lie more in its incisiveness and speed, the macro stuff, plus bass quality. In terms of low-level resolution, I find it only a slight upgrade over the HD650. People can tar and feather me for that if they want. Again, macro stuff, or even just a treble tilt (sometimes the same thing), often fool people. But, hey, the macro stuff is absolutely important.

    Anyway, 1080P is just too common. It found in bargain bin shit these days. Everything is 1080P. Bare minimum expectation level for resolution. That's not the HD650! It's not quite top-tier 4K, so the only common standard in-between is 1440P. And new forms of AA and related image processing are playing a large role in somewhat bridging resolution gaps (because 4K TVs are common and consoles can't do real 4K for shit....the inverse applies for things like supersampling and pcmasterrace groupies.)

    I would still use the term resolution. Micro-detail may also apply. At its basis, I'm thinking of the ability to more clearly hear the tiniest, subtle details in the back of the mix. Again, think to a 3D scene, and what you can see clearly in the background given resolution, supersampling/anti-aliasing, etc. True resolution pulls from every technical area, but I'm only focused on if we were to equate listening to monitor resolution.

    (What's interesting is that an aliased image on a monitor doesn't usually seem to equate to what you'd think an aliased DAC, i.e. non-oversampling, would sound like...Must just be that treble droop.)


    If you put on an objective hat with the Verite, its paradoxical nature really boils down to simple things. It has an upper-mid dip. The lower-treble is a bit pronounced, but more so in relation to the dip prior. It's a little emphasized in the lower-mids but still extends well. Pads change this somewhat, but the core characteristics usually remain (at least for the two types of pads I tried). It tends to exhibit excellent driver control abilities, if you look at CSDs and Marv's experimental burst measurements.

    It's like if you call a VA panel paradoxical for simultaneously looking TN fast and IPS slow at the same time. It's usually because dark-to-light pixel transitions are slow on VA. It's a blend of pros and cons we can mostly break down that then add up as a whole to a unique experience.
     
  4. Resolve

    Resolve MOT: Headphones.com

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    I still think I misunderstand what you mean by slam then. Because the very distinct improvements in speed over the HD650 in my mind confer related benefits to what I'm used to thinking of with "slam", or tonal impact. In that sense, this quality is more strongly noticeable in the Verite than both the Utopia and the HD650. But, if what you're talking about is something different, I'm all ears (and willing to improve my understanding).
     
  5. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Verite in the house -- sadly not mine but a kind loan from @Phantaminum (thanks very much bro!)
    Quite excited now because I've wanted to hear them by myself since the release date.

    As usual for every zmf, my first (visual) impression is that they're beautiful. More impressions and measurements to come.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  6. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    6-hour ongoing impressions (read: do not value much :))

    1. Like Kirk's loaner auteur unit, immediately noticed a mild channel imbalance in bass and lower mids -- which was confirmed by the measurement. This, also like auteur loaner case, almost went away after swapping left and right pads (at least to my ears and my EARS). When I'll return this verite, (and if universe pads are unequipped that time) I will tell @Phantaminum, the owner, which pad should be on which side. Note this only applied to universe pads, not verite pads (heck, Zach you should name your pads differently to reduce confusion!!).

    2. Honestly, after listening to a couple of testing tracks (with pads swapped), I seriously started to think of HOW TO FUND VERITE. Curse you Zach.... really. Oh well, this loaner period will be most likely my internal conflict to maintain my "sanity" (reading the "onsanity" article over and over to do so)

    3. I am now listening with verite pads. While these doubtlessly sound more cohesive and entertaining, ..less wow -- I'm scratching my head. Yeah.. kinda prefer universe pads. Surely need to listen more thoroughly before concluding. Also curious about suade pads (which I liked a lot with the loaner aeolus), which is unfortunately not available this time around.

    4. Now I can confidently say that zmf neutrality-king is auteur.

    5. If all my senn hps are up for sale in a few weeks, Zach is definitely to blame.

    PS. Doug said my 3F would be likely shipped next Wed. Hope I can get it before returning this verite..
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  7. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    Yeah the Universe pads are VERY finicky, which is totally my fault. It's the thick leather, softer foam, and taller Z-AXIS. The drivers are measured before and after assembly, so anyways - sorry for the pads. The Verite pads fortunately have stiffer foam and thinner leather so, less issues there.

    Look forward to your impressions, a couple other friends of mine are getting the Ravenswood as well, I'm excited to hear it!

    Lastly - send me an email - I'll send over a set of universe suede perf pads for you to try for sake of your analysis etc etc.
     
  8. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    @zach915m Email sent to [email protected]

    Thanks much for your lovely suggestion (and clarification as well). That would be very very helpful.

    Btw my sanity keeps going down.. lol
     
  9. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    Well, what do we have here...

    IMG_20190423_153933.jpg

    Thanks to @zach915m I will be sending these new ziricote Verite out on loaner tour. I assume there might be some interest in that?

    IMG_20190423_154050.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  10. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Thinking which would be faster and easier -- Robbing bank (to fund THAT), or robbing (directly) THAT? Hmm.

    But jokes aside, I'd like to hear @Elnrik 's comparative impressions soon regarding ziricote vs pheasant-wood (which I am assuming yours to be) -- because I am really in the verite market now!
     
  11. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I can shave a cat's ass at 200 yd with my AR-15. Better not let me see you coming. =P

    haha

    I'm giving this a nice, long burn-in marathon before I send it anywhere, and I would like to listen to it for a bit after that. :)
     
  12. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    I gave mine like 350 hours?

    There's no kill like overkill right, I figured I might as well go OTT ...
     
  13. Aeron

    Aeron Facebook Friend

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  14. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    I posted a short guide a little while ago:
     
  15. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    The other way is to download the image to your device & hit the 'upload a file' button next to "Post Reply"
     
  16. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    UPDATE (26 Apr 2019): Impressions on Universe suede pads added -- https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/zmf-new-headphones-vérité-and-aeolus.6893/page-24#post-254715

    [​IMG]

    Background

    I’ve always thought that the best compliment a reviewer can give is to BUY it after reviewing -- acknowledge so-called “reviewer perk/pricing” though. Something very similar happened to me this time around. I couldn’t resist myself and posted this ad within 48 hours from the first listen of the borrowed verite. Haha, damn, I curse you, Zach..

    I don’t want my verite post to say something like “it has everything. Be is wonderful”. My take is the opposite: verite has its own limitations and should be chosen very, very carefully because of its highly unique sounding. I can’t recommend verite blindly to anybody. At least for neutral heads, auteur or aeolus (depending on pads) would fit better.

    That said, verite was so special to me that I had to deal with ONGOING desire to get it for myself. Throughout this review I’d justify myself in spending that much money for one pair of headphones. (I’ve had some very pricey cans such as Sr009 years ago but anything except Ether 2 resulted in regrets at the end of the day)


    Associated gears and configuration

    Source: GSTD X-26, TP DX3
    Amp: EC Black Widow
    Headphones compared: MrS Ether 2, HFM Arya, Senn HD600 and HD800
    And other accessories (X-SPDIF2 converter, PPP conditioner)

    Not much to say my rig. But dac is rather unusual in this forum. In short, it’s a very good implementation of ES9038 pro dac. Having sabre 9038 technicalities with tone/warmth of my preference. I dare to say it’s kinda schiit-soundning ds dac -- somewhere between gumby1 and yggy2 (closer to the latter). So far, X26 is the only ds dac with which I don’t feel downgraded from convert-2. But still half league lower than yggdrasil 2. See the relevant posts to find more impressions.

    DX3 was used to demonstrate what happened with lesser sources/amps.

    I don’t have utopia and other zmf open cans now.. So any assessments/arguments about them based on the memory.

    Also have DSHA-3F amp and suede pads en-route to my place. Will update them later if possible.


    Appearance, Weight and Ergonomics

    It goes without saying that verite is beautiful. But I’m not sure if that per se deserves to the asking price of 2.5-2.8k usd. While verite’s BQ is very good, Zach’s wood art is already obvious in much cheaper atticus or aeolus: quality delta couldn’t match to price delta. That said, the reason why I fell in love with verite is not its beauty but its sound.

    By the way, I would like to point out that verite, at least the combination I am testing (pheasant-wood and polished steel grilles), is HEAVY. Verite weighed 1.17-1.18 lbs (530-537g) with my scales in the house (one kitchen scale and one luggage scale), which is much heavier than product description. Of course product to product weight variation is possible, particularly considering wood material. But I want ZMF to make more effort to accurately deliver product information on their homepages. To some, weight could be a real obstacle or purchase deciding factor. That’s not my case though -- if I can freely choose, will select higher-janka woods, which generally are heavier.

    Experienced hobbyists already know weight isn’t the sole parameter to determine ergonomics. Verite is actually more comfortable on heads than the measured weight suggest, compared to similar or even lighter competitors -- better ergonomics than utopia (all focals by extension) or lcd4. Nevertheless, still huge comfort gap between verite and ether 2: gravitation still matters.


    Verite pads vs Universe pads

    Due to their thickness, universe pads can be “mis-equipped” (verite pads seem to have no such issue). I highly recommend all verite and aeolus users to see Zach’s comment to understand trickiness of universe pads better. Anyway if any verite user feel something unbalanced between channels, consider swapping left and right pads first.

    Speaking of sonic difference, verite pads (aliased as “v-pad” to reduce confusion henceforth; similarly universe pads aliased as “u-pad”) neutralize frequency responses fairly well by filling up lower-treble dips (found in universe pads) and lifting up entire trebles. The result is more dynamic and aggressive sounding. People’s opinions vary between these two pads. My preference went to u-pad. To me, verite became way more attractive and magical with u-pad. Dare to say I would not bother even if only u-pad is available. This is quite interesting because for aeolus I concluded oppositely! Anyway still wondering how suede pads work for verite.


    Sound - Tonality

    Bass is pretty good for open dynamic headphones. I can nitpick that the lowest sub-bass (20-40hz) is slightly rolled off, which can be recognized with certain soundtracks and electronic musics that artificially go down to 20hz and below.. Dubstep tracks with very low wobble bass could reveal this most evidently. Good planars doubtlessly do better in handling lowest notes in such tracks. Autuer and aeolus both did a tad better than verite here, too. But verite is still better than anything else. Except such special cases, naturally mic'd low notes in organ and bass drum in Saint Saen’s organ symphony (no 3) sounds deep enough with wonderful clarity and viscerality. I personally like verite’s bass over utopia any day, even with articulation and nuance taken into account. To me focal’s smaller drivers with longer excursion didn’t do justice.

    Regarding bass “quality”, Focal or HFM (Arya and HEKs) tend to articulate nuance with greater clarity at first listen. Verite taught me what I heard with focal/hfm was a bit unnatural over-exaggeration. Verite and ether 2 tend to sound more similar than different here -- both sounds righter and more natural. Susvara and HD800 are kind of in the middle of these two groups (closer to the latter group). Between verite and ether 2, ether 2 is a hair closer to my bass preference. I tend to like E2 with classical pieces while verite outshined E2 in contemporary and pop. But difference is very small -- marginal at most.

    Verite’s midrange has no annoying 1000hz weirdness (I generally dislike any headphones showing a little dip or peak around 1k). However, high mid around 1.5k sounded a little recessed, causing electric guitars a bit distant. Switching from verite to E2 could show this quite clearly. But I didn’t perceive it as annoyance. Rather, it felt like a part of verite’s unique presentation, which will be detailed below. I haven’t thought E2’s midrange boring.. But verite’s mid has something spicy there.. in a positive way. Btw, I like both midrange over anything I mentioned above, no matter whether msrp is lower or higher. HD600 can stack against both in tonality, but with being technically outperformed. Auteur can be the only exception, whose biocellulose midrange sounded very special and emotional, at a cost of a bit detail/speed loss by comparison.

    I’m really having hard time in describing verite’s treble. Can’t think of proper vocabulary to accurately capture what I hear. It’s very easy to recognize sudden recession around lower treble (around 3.5khz) with verite. Higher octaves are also far from what I would consider neutral. In short, verite doesn’t sound quite cohesive in upper register. Headphones having these traits generally tended to sound suck .. or acceptable at best. What’s different with verite is that there is no informational loss even with such response. No, indeed it worked oppositely. Such unevenness sounded BETTER and let me perceive MORE details, rather than losing them. This experience reminded me of some very “counterintuitive” food tricks such as eating sweet potatoes with a grain of salt or drinking orange juice with a drop of soy sauce -- far sweeter than adding sugar!

    I remember Marv mentioned it as “Japanese coloration” and “super th-x00” .. that’s really nice way to put. Maybe I can half agree. My perception is closer to “enhancement” rather than “coloration”.

    If you can’t get what I am saying, fair enough. Anyway verite’s treble sound that unique, departing from neutral camp but substantially differing from usual “fun” group such as aeolus at the same time. Having been enjoying ether 2 for almost half an year, I thought I had a clear conclusion regarding “rightness” of sounds in frequency response and tonality -- at least for myself. However, verite just proved me wrong.

    And, yes, this is one of primary reasons why I DESIRE to get my own verite.


    Sound - Technicality

    Conditioned by appropriate amping and sourcing (will tell you why below), it’s very hard to nitpick verite’s technicality, probably due to its material superiority. Most conservatively speaking, verite’s performance deserved to its asking price.

    Granted that utopia resolve small details fairly well, but verite does at least equivalent job with far better naturalness. Indeed, I hear noticeably more plankton with verite than utopia (fed from dave and wa5 if I recall correctly) -- likely because my rig is very synergistic with verite. And also partly because my biased preference toward verite’s presentation. Verite fantastically resolved small level information from “hotel california live (from hell freeze over)” and “bach cello suite (played by Rostropovich)”. Great texture as well. I was simply amazed that my dac could still pull this much information from redbook cd. Note that these impressions are from BW whichI don’t think the most optimal amp for verite. Hd800 seems to edge out verite in upper register, but it might be attributed to drier and brightness of hd800. E2 is one league below compared to these headphones.

    I am also quite impressed with transient of verite. Although the leading edge of attacks is a bit rounded to my ears (aka less slamming; not so much), how they stop surprised me. Yes, verite’s decay is just spot on -- not too fast (associated with dryness or artificiality) or too slow (associated with blurring in busy passages). I’ve never heard any headphones stopping with as enough control and authorization as verite. I remember utopia is also very good at doing this, but outperformed by verite.

    Micro- and macro- dynamics are both excellent. Testing with (loudness-matched) Bill Withers’ “ain’t sunshine” from two differently compressed albums (crest factors differed by 4db; r128 loudness-based dr differed by 2db), verite resolved small volume gradations much better than anything else from my collection except E2. I’d put E2 and verite in the same ballpark. HD600 was close though.

    Verite’s headstage was very nice. A bit narrower than hd800, and deeper than E2. I am also sitting in the row 18-ish. Taken together with unique treble responses, verite effortlessly rendered the most holographic stages and images among I tried. No diffusing like HEKs. But it reminded me of convert-2 a bit. Verite kinda behaved like it but to much less extent. Not sure if this is (partly) because of x26 dac. Maybe cs solaris + verite can be the simplest totl combination that can win everything else. Seriously.

    It’s worthwhile mentioning the pairing with dx3 as a dac-amp. While verite was still pleasing and neither harsh nor annoying by any means, I recognized verite’s magic (mostly coming from uneven trebles and its unique presentation) started to harm technicalities. Interestingly this largely mirrors some of negative impressions reported in this thread. I don’t think they paired verite with shitty gears. But this small experiment may hint that verite needs careful matching. This may be a bit counterintuitive considering verite’s relatively high Z.


    Conclusion

    Again, this is not headphones for everybody. Rather I think it serves to certain weirdos. Any interested party is recommended to give a try before making purchase decisions, as should for its price level. That said, for those weirdos, verite is likely to be something IRREPLACEABLE. Sadly, I turned out to be one of such victims.

    So at the end of the day, I looked at the “onsanity” checklist again:
    • Do I have the money to buy this product? -- yes
    • Am I lacking something this product will do? -- yes
    • Am I really unhappy with my system? -- yes unless I can wipe out my verite memory.
    Sanity vaporized. Damn. I curse you Zach. Damn.


    TL;DR
    • Pros: seductive treble tonality and superb transience (mostly regarding decay and sustain)
    • Cons: weight, potentially upstream-picky, not-for-everyone presentation, rounded attack

    PS. Measurements taken. Will post them probably tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  17. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Attaching measured weights too. Of course measured without cables.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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  19. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Certainly there's a bit of work to be done to figure out a pattern vis-a-vis amp pairings.

    It doesn't respond like a conventional high z dyna to output z, and I think it likes power more than one would expect given its sensitivity.
     
  20. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I’ve never heard anything anywhere near as poorly driven as the Verite out of the USB powered Fulla 2. It sounded like a speaker badly positioned in an untreated room on top of an empty Ikea cupboard, with flabbier bass.

    That along with the discrepancy in percieved dynamics I found in relation to others, with the Mjolnir 2 and Night Blues Mini, indicates that Verite may really need a tube amp with elephantitis-level cojones to drive them well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019

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