ZMF New Headphones: Vérité and Aeolus

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    Hold up. I thought you were having issues with your SW51+, and was going to send it out to be fixed. Not to say it would affect your verite review, but that should be put out there.
     
  2. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    Probably should have updated some people on this. @HotRatSalad was kind enough to sell me their SW51+, since they have hum issues on it at their place due to magnetic fields (no hum issues with me, happily!). I'm either going to find a way to get mine refunded from the prior seller or have it repaired - in the latter case, I'll likely be putting the repaired unit up for sale here for cheap! As far as I can tell, his unit is fully functional (sounds great with my HD600 and Phoebe Bridgers!).
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  3. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    I’ve written up my full views elsewhere, but I just wanted to chime in to say that while I think my overall observations comport with @dematted my takeaway is very different.

    Here’s my measurement of the open Verite (gold) with the HD6XX (red) and Utopia (black). These were done on MiniDSP EARS with a slightly modified version of Marv’s compensation.

    [​IMG]

    In the 1-6k range, the Verite is basically moving in the opposite direction of the other two cans. I agree with dematted that the Verite’s dips, compared with the Utopia’s bumps, in this region means that guitars have more bite on the latter than the former. The Verite delivers more of a body sound from acoustics, for example, whereas the Utopia leans towards the strings. The same goes for snares (skins versus wires).

    In extensive listening, I found it very hard to say which was the more accurate tonal presentation. This seems to vary from recording to recording. That said, broadly speaking the Verite sounds drier while the Utopia offers more “air” and room ambience, as dematted notes. These are, overall, subtle differences — differences that can vary between masterings of the same album, thus making it very hard to say what’s “right.” As others have noted, when you get transducers as fast and revealing as either of these cans, upstream synergy ends up mattering a lot, too. (Both the Verite and the Utopia are going to let you hear differences in DACs that the ASR folks don’t think exist.)

    One other convergence in observation, but not takeaway, is dematted’s comments about speed and lack of bass bleed into the midrange. The Verite shares these qualities with the Utopia, but actually presents them in a slightly more relaxed, inviting way IMHO. I very much like both of these qualities, but they can be shocking coming from something like the HD6XX.

    In sum, I’m hearing a lot of the same things dematted is, but I disagree on the tonal accuracy front, and I very much like what I’m hearing.
     
  4. Pharmaboy

    Pharmaboy Friend

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    Another VO observation: last night I tried the VO on the 4th SS amp (Liquid Carbon v2). As often happens, this somewhat warm, bassy amp didn't push an already slightly warm headphone into greater warmth. Instead, some unexpected synergy occurred:
    • I heard a bit less air in the treble & space (side-to-side) in the soundstage
    • In turn, I heard a new bounce in the lower midrange/upper bass, which hit a little harder & sounded more "fun" -- not 100% accurate, but kinda nice.
    The LC doesn't sound as good w/the VO as my best SS amp, the V281 (a great pairing). But it also doesn't sound notably worse--just different. This HP is sometimes described as "amp-picky," but I can't get it to sound bad, much less just "average," on any of my SS amps...
     
  5. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I thought it was more DAC picky? At least that's what I swore I've heard.
     
  6. dncnexus

    dncnexus Friend

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    Verite.jpeg

    Verite Open Impressions

    I took the plunge on headphones I never thought I would own. I guess the longer I get into this hobby the more I dive deeper into it. I am enjoying the journey along the way

    I initially wanted to buy the Stabilized Maple Verite Closed that are currently coming on ZMFNovember, and have been harassing Zach about it since the summer. I ended up getting these from someone on Reddit when I saw they were interested in parting. I never tried either Verite, but through talking to people who's opinion I value, thought the Verite Open would be a better match for me, and since these are a beautiful purple, it scratched my colorful ZMF itch!

    So as you can probably tell, these are the Verite Open Camphor Burl stained purple, with rose gold hardware. I personally am a big fan of the looks.

    Build + Comfort

    The first thing I noticed when picking these up compared to the Auteur Cocobolo was just how light these are. I was immediately wow'd. They felt much lighter, which I assume is due to the less dense wood + magnesium chassis, but I loved it. This lead to the comfort being incredibly better than I experienced with the Auteur Cocobolo. I couldn't use the stock lambskin headstrap on the Auteur due to hotspots, but with the Verite I have nothing to complain about buildwise or comfort related.

    Chain

    Yggdrasil GS > DNA Starlett/Eddie Current Black Widow 2 > Verite Open

    Sound Impressions

    I wanna preface these sound impressions with the pad discussion. Upon initial listen, I decided to try the Universe Lambskin Perf pads. I did this since many people talk about the insane 3D imaging that is brought with these pads, and I was also wow'd by these pads. I found it incredible and made me start to relisten to my whole library. I tried the Verite pads, but felt due to the lack of 3D stage, they weren't as good. This has since changed. After a couple days, I found the 3D soundstaging affect to be quite boring and fatiguing. Fatiguing in the sense that I felt it started to take away from the music. Yes it was cool, but it was starting to distract me and just cause me to get tired of the affect. So I swapped back to the Verite pads, and I am loving them and think I will keep these pads on for awhile. I might switch back eventually, but not for now.

    Now that we got through that long talk, lets get into some of the sound impressions!

    Bass:
    The bass is very thumpy and has good slam. I felt that the bass is slightly elevated, but it doesn't overpower anything. I found the bass to be well textured and detailed. While not a super macrodynamic sound, it gives enough to get your head bumping and gives enough weight to the bass notes.

    Mids:
    I won't lie, mids are my most important part of the mix in my opinion. The Verite is good in the mids, but I found the recession to be a bit much. I know this helps in other areas such as soundstage and space, but I have a lust for intimate mids. While I wish they were a bit more prominent, I quickly forget due to the other positives. If I want a mid focused sound I move to the HD6XX KISS for the day.

    Highs:
    I was a bit worried since many people like to say that the Verite is a bit bright. Or I guess potentially bright depending on the amp and pads used. I did not find the Verite to be bright in any way. I think the treble is airy compared to other ZMF cans, but the treble seems slightly recessed compared to other headphones that lean more bright. I prefer the way the Verite does treble, enough to bring all the detail, but never sibilant. This is a headphone that I can listen to and not get fatigued.

    Soundstage/Imaging:
    I touched on this earlier, but soundstage and imaging seems to be affected by pads. In general I found the soundstage to be a decent sized, with good spacing and imaging between the different instruments. I think that this is a good size without getting too large.

    Detail:
    Detail is great. I would compare it to the level of Utopia (from my limited listening) while having a more agreeable FR and giving me the ZMF house sound which I enjoy.

    Conclusion:
    I was a bit afraid going into these since it seems to be quite a divisive headphone, but I really think its impressive. I am enjoying it alot, and it seems to have knocked my Auteur from its spot in my lineup. I just realized that since getting the Verite, I haven't reached for the Auteur at all. What I would say I enjoyed better on the Auteur was the biocellulos timbre. But I should have a headphone coming in soon that will have close to Verite level of technicalities and Auteur biocellulos timbre, so I will soon have that back soon!
     
  7. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    Great review...I had very similar impressions, albeit I wasn't quite able to get over the "mid recession", as I wrote in my impressions. Out of curiosity, what is the headphone that has "biocellulose timbre" and "verite technicalities"? Sounds like a true goldilocks headphone to me!
     
  8. dncnexus

    dncnexus Friend

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    I got the ESX900 commissioned by @E_Schaaf, I am having alot of high expectations for it based on reviews and from talks with @tommytakis.

    He hasn't led me astray yet, so I am looking forward to getting them!
     
  9. johnnypaddock

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    A few weeks back I had the opportunity to pick up a Verité in African blackwood. I owned the stock (silkwood) version but had always wanted to compare it with a harder wood. In case it might be helpful, here are my impressions.

    First, the wood itself is really impressive. It's got wonderful dark brown grain pattern when seen in certain angles, and from a distance it looks straight up black. It's also solid as hell. I only have limited exposure to the more exotic woods that Zach uses, but the ones I've seen have been exceptional.

    The main reason I wanted to try the blackwood was the sound. As ZMF woods go, you couldn't have more of a contrast. Silkwood is the lightest and most porous, coming in at 840 on the janka scale. African blackwood is by far the hardest at 3670... It is literally over 4x harder!! I'm sure that the difference in sound that I experienced will be more significant than going from something like maple ambrosia to zebrawood on the Auteur.

    The blackwood takes an incredibly fast headphone and ramps it up another level. The speed is insane. Notes come out of nowhere and just disappear into thin air. I've heard some people describe the "subwoofer effect" and I'm getting what they mean. Bass will smack you in the face with a little more impact. The whole sound is presented in a direct manner, well defined and smooth as hell... Boom, here it is, then it's gone. On certain tracks, it's absolutely perfect.

    On the other hand, I found that I was missing some of the addicting 3D/holographic effect that I get from the silkwood. This might be completely in my head (I suppose all audio is), but the wild, cavernous soundstage I get with the stock VO wasn't as prevalent with the blackwood. It's still an excellent soundstage don't get me wrong, but it's a little more defined, where the silkwood is more diffuse and sounds are harder to pinpoint. I can see where most people would prefer the blackwood but the longer decay of the silkwood paired with the speed of the driver just seems to work perfectly for me.

    I've tried to keep "speed" in mind when building the rest of my system (Metrum Adagio DAC > GSX-Mini / ZMF Pendant) and in that context I think the blackwood might just be too much of a good thing. I think in a chain with more of a liquid or "tubey" sound, things might be different. Also, all of my impressions were with the Universe lambskin pads, which are my preference for the VO and the ones I'm most familiar with. I did try the Universe suede with the blackwood and it wasn't my thing.

    The new limited VO is desert ironwood, which is right up there with blackwood on the janka scale and it looks incredibly nice! Hopefully my comparison is helpful to anyone considering it.
     
  10. PsychedelicBreakfast

    PsychedelicBreakfast New

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    Hi everyone, first time poster here and was looking for some advice on my next headphone purchase. I presently have a ZMF Aeolus which I enjoy very much. I can spend hours listening on it and not feel any fatigue. I love the mid-range and think its perfect. The rawness of guitars comes out so beautifully. I like the bass, but I do wish there was some more of it. This, along with the small soundstage, is my only complaint when it comes to the Aeolus.

    This has me thinking of upgrading and I am considering ZMF Verite Closed and Audeze LCD3. I am hoping that you guys can help me make the decision on which one would be the better option for me. I prefer warm sound signatures but not overtly dark. What I just love listening to is string instruments and electric guitar in classic rock. The presentation of electric guitar is thus the single most important thing for me. This, combined with a warm signature and a good low-end, is what I really like. This thought process has led me to consider two headphones so far: Audeze LCD3 or a Verite Closed. Note, I will likely sell the Aeolus if I end up like either of these. I cannot afford to keep both. I will also likely purchase them used. I wish I could buy both and compare, as that would be the best. I might still but I wanted the opinions of listeners here.

    From what I read about the Verite Closed, the tonality is somewhat different than other ZMF cans. Some people call it very natural whereas say it is not as natural as the Aeolus. The mids apparantly have a recession that worries me somewhat. Another take away from my research online is that the VC has more sub-bass than the Aeolus but less mid-bass. Is this conclusion correct? If so, I wonder if it means the Aeolus is more suited for classic rock than the VC? I also read in this thread that the VC has some reverb in its bass and its not as clean as a Audeze planar. I think I am going to be fine with that - I enjoy reverb as long as its not too muddy and isn't bleeding into the mids.

    I would prefer to own the ZMF VC over the LCD3 for multiple reasons. The VC is more comfortable, is more reliable and ZMF has the best customer support in the business. The LCD3 is significantly cheaper on the used market but the driver issues worry me.

    Considering my preferences, what would you guys recommend? TL;DR: looking to keep the creamy mids of the Aeolus but want more bass.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  11. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    Hey! Thanks for the detailed write-up. You might want to post this in the all-purpose advice thread, but I'm not so sure, so I'll answer you here.

    I honestly don't know if there are many open-back headphones that replicate what the Aeolus do in the mid-range. While its true that the Verite has a somewhat similar FR to the Aeolus, in my experience the mid-range wasn't as perceptibly lush/rich as it was with the Aeolus. Honestly, given your love for the Aeolus, I would recommend looking to upgrade the rest of your chain instead of trying to upgrade headphones, as there really aren't many headphones (in my opinion) that replicate exactly what you like about the Aeolus. The Auteur with darker pads might be one option to consider (like Eikon Lambskin), but I don't even think those fully have the sense of sheer body in the mid-range that the aeolus does.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  12. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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  13. Pharmaboy

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    It's really hard to find another dynamic headphone that betters the Aeolus in the things it does so well: big, rich mids; big/expressive soundstage; exuberant dynamics, top to bottom; and the most "fun" you can have with headphones on your head.

    I have heard both of the other headphones you mention: I owned a pre-fazor LCD-3 for a year or so (since sold); and had loaner Verite Open & Closed headphones last December (for weeks, long enough to get very familiar). The LCD-3 is a lovely headphone, but it has certain limitations: it's big, heavy, and not as well balanced or comfortable as the Aeolus (tho w/the latest Audeze Carbon-Fiber headband, it gets much better); and the LCD-3, or at least, the pair I had, was more of a "specialist" HP, in the sense that it sounded ravishing, quite beautiful, on classical, choral, chamber music--but way less than exciting on anything w/a strong beat & bassline.

    The Verite Closed is a whole other category. That's a pretty amazing headphone. I didn't get along well w/it only because dynamic closed back designs tend to aggravate my tinnitus & migraine (not the VC's fault). What I did manage to hear was spectacular. It may well be the best closed back HP I've ever heard. But going into it, you should know that it really is a different sonic concept than the Aeolus--and IMHO, you should go into a VC (any new headphone) being prepared to appreciate the different or contrasting qualities it brings you...things the Aeolus doesn't do, or doesn't do as well. In the case of the VC, those things are speed (lightning fast); great detail & resolution, yet somehow not being bright or "forced" sounding; excellent dynamics; also excellent bass, with less mid-bass emphasis than Aeolus, also more sub-bass. I would call the VC slightly warm; it clearly has that wonderful ZMF "house sound," which means music sounds like real music.

    FYI, I definitely didn't hear certain things people say about the VC (also VO), names a midrange "recession" (nope) and add'l reverb (nope--but the Aeolus has reverb, and it's wonderful).

    FYI-2: I don't regard the Aeolus as good for this type of music but not that type. I use if for everything. It may be fun as hell, but it also has more resolution than people give it credit for. IMO it kills on everything from electric blues to modern classical music.

    3 suggestions that are probably not what you're expecting:
    1. You don't mention what pads you have on the Aeolus--but you can change its sound a fair amount, and always w/real success, using different pads. My favorite pads are the universe perforated suedes; next favorite are perforated Lamskin Verite pads, which make the Aeolus sound more neutral & detailed, w/less mid-bass emphasis. My least favorite pads are the stock Aeolus pads.
    2. You could take your search in a whole direction by getting a classic that might please you in new ways--the Sennheiser HD650, Massdrop HD6XX, etc. I have a heavily modded HD650 (Jupiter Audio Research's JAR650), and it has a superb, slightly warm, detailed sound (excellent midrange). It's more of a "monitoring" sound than a "party" sound--but what it does, it does very well.
    3. And iyou could find a used/good condition ZMF Ori to give that a try. I love my Ori to pieces--it's a planar w/crushing bass (I like everything it does--not just bass). Planars don't sound exactly like dynamics, and viva la difference!
    Best of all, #1 & #2 can be done for less than big $$$.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  14. dncnexus

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    I haven't heard the Aeolus, but I have heard the VO (similar to VC) and would say from everything ive seen and people I have talked to, if you enjoy the midrange on the Aeolus, you won't be happy with the midrange on the VC/VO. I came from a 6XXK and even with the Clear, the VO midrange does feel recessed. I am not the only person who feels this way either. I still love the VO, but the midrange is the biggest con I personally have with it, everything else is pretty great.

    So if you are wanting a midrange similar to the Aeolus, I don't think the VC is your answer. I would second @E_Schaaf in asking what if your source and amplification. If you love your Aeolus, I would see no real reason to upgrade, and would also second trying out new pads. The things you want (more bass/bigger soundstage) could be addressed with a pad change. I would search for a better pad, or even reach out to Zach with what you are looking for in changes to the Aeolus, and I think he can help you out.

    Just because something is "higher-end" doesn't always mean its better for you.
     
  15. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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    @PsychedelicBreakfast I also have the Aeolus and I just bought a pair of Verite Closed on HF today, so I can give you my feedback once I will receive them next week.

    Question, what is your amp and your source? Which pads? (My favorite pads are the Universe perforated suedes)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  16. PsychedelicBreakfast

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    Thank you! Yes, the Aeolus certainly sounds like its very unique and hard to beat. Regarding the Auteur, I have generally stayed away from it as almost universally its said to be neutral (or the most neutral ZMF HP). I'm certain the dark pads would make a difference, but how much - and then what do I gain compared to the Aeolus? Would the bass better in terms of volume and impact?

    I currently use a Topping D10 and a Liquid Carbon X. Previously, I had a Schitt Valhalla 2 and found it a bit bright with the Aeolus. I really like the LCX, it tamed the midrange for me. I am considering a Liquid Platinum or a Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball if I stay with the Aeolus or "upgrade" to the VC.

    Regarding the DAC - I have so far not heard any improvement with the D10. I will likely move to a better unit later down the line. I am not sure which.

    Thank you for the detailed writeup! I'll address your suggestions first:

    1. I have experimented with the pads already but they did not add much to the bass (or at least as much as I'd like). I have tried the stock Aeolus pads, universe perforated suedes as well as the Eikon pads.
    2. Oh I already own the HD650 and enjoyed it for several years. I then wanted a change (read: bass) and upgraded to an Aeolus. My initial intention was to purchase a LCD-2 but found an Aeolus and purchased thet instead. I can look into modding my existing unit just for fun. Thanks for this!
    3. Yes, I really want to listen to planars at some point. How would you compare the Ori to the LCD2?

    Considering that the VC has more sub bass and less mid bass, what does this mean for (well recorded) rock such as Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Eagles (listening to the The Last Report on the Aeolus is my favourite thing ever). You mentioned that the VC does not have a midrange recession is encouraging - perhaps I will buy it and hear it myself. The great thing is that the resale value doesn't deteriorate significantly.

    Thank you for writing about the LCD3 as well - the comfort/weight is one of the reasons I don't want to purchase them. The second is the inconsistency and driver failures. I still want to listen to Audeze at some point. There is near universal praise for the LCD2, it seems.

    Interesting. I wonder if your pads and/or the source gear is different from pharmacy's and that alone is sufficient to diminish the midrange recession.

    Regarding my source - I posted above. While I intend to upgrade those as well, I also think that the biggest change usually comes from the HP itself. Could you recommend an amp that would improve the bass on the Aeolus?

    Thank you! I'll wait for your impressions!! I have a Topping D10 and a Liquid Carbon X. I use the stock Aeolus pads.
     
  17. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    With your chain it would be foolish to go for a Verite-class headphone when you're barely digging into what Aeolus has to offer. If you already know you love Aeolus, drive it something that will show you what it's capable of. IMO, YMMV, all that...

    edit - I'd rather take a $2500 amp/dac upgrade with Aeo than any other headphone with your existing gear.

    edit 2 - $2500-3000 is a HUGE budget for a headphone system. More than I have in my own. You have tons of flexibility. You already have a great headphone. Time to focus elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  18. PsychedelicBreakfast

    PsychedelicBreakfast New

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    What would you recommend in the $500-800 range?
     
  19. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Bifrost 2 and DNA Starlett together would come in under $3k. Then you'd have a system that scales with your future headphone purchases too. There are plenty of different options at this price point or under for an amp+DAC other than the combo I mentioned.

    lower price range - SW51 + Modi Multibit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  20. dematted

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    In my experience, the darker pads on the Auteur moves it significantly closer to the tonality of the Aeolus, but it is still a tad brighter and it still doesn't have the thumping bass macrodynamics and quite the same warmth in the mid-range. That's why I think you're better off staying with the Aeolus - in terms of volume and impact, the Aeolus with stock pads will definitely beat the Auteur, imo.

    What I recommend is this: look first for upgrades to your dac, which is probably the biggest weakness in your chain. Some names to throw out there that have received good reception here: Modi Multibit, Bifrost 2, Soekris 1321/1541, Dangerous Music Source. If I had to recommend one, I'd pick the Bifrost 2 just because it has unison USB so has the least drawbacks from being driven directly from a computer (I assume that is what you're doing!).

    Then you probably want to look to upgrade your amp. In my experience, the Aeolus has played wellwith higher Z tube amps, and there are a lot of options around. I loved the way Aeolus worked with SW51+, though that amp is a little hard to obtain sometimes, and there are plenty of other viable options to save up for. I hear that many like the way that Aeolus sounds with ZMF Pendant (Although that's much more expensive). Starlett is another viable option, though if you're looking for budget stuff it's probably not too bad an idea to look into an upgraded bottlehead crack and Liquid Platinum.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020

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