ZMF Omni (vs. TH-X00 and Nighthawk)

@gbeast, nothing against you but I don't care at all about graphs. I trust my ears and they are telling me that the NightHawk are one of the best headphones that I have heard in my life!

They sounded a little muffled at the beginning but now after 200 hours of burn-in they are mind-blowing.

I have been in this hobby for more than 25 years and I have a pair of $6000 speakers at home so I think that I know what I'm talking about.

You guys should stop focusing on graphs and spend more time listening to music...

 

Not trying to be mean here but why the heck do you visit SBAF and like the perspectives here if you don't care about graphs?

Im surprised you don't find it too objective here.

I didn't dislike your posts out of anger or anything at all but they are obviously counter culture for SBAF. Manufacturers shouldn't just use their ears anymore, because of Tyll and perspectives like SBAF, people will actually start getting their tunings more balanced by using graphs. I didn't read the graph and call them muddy. I heard them, called them muddy, trimmed the mud region, and looked at the graph to see what was up with the midrange and to confirm why I thought the NH has good treble extension.

Not debating anymore cause hey... If you like it you like it. There is very much to appreciate about it. If the Eikon wasnt on the horizon I would even own one. I just can't call it tonally accurate and don't like it without eq

 

lol Don't quote me for something someone else said.

I also got had a chuckle at the "I didn't dislike your post out of anger" When you have been known for throwing little tantrums on Hype-fi and also had a few on here to a lesser scale....The Kenning Vali post comes to mind in another thread. Your behaviour is very Headfi-ish(That needs to be a thing)and I just find it odd behaviour in general. Calm down, have a few cups of coffee and don't take the internet so seriously you seem to flip out a lot when people disagree..the audio world seems to have a lot of insecurities but too be fair I rarely see it on here.

As someone who is studying enginering please show me what tobaly correct is and not what you THINK it is because I can easily put that to the test.

Awaiting another little dislike outburst go on click it, you know you want to.

 

You said:

I disliked that part of your post.

I also apologized for my post about the vali here. I also posted very calmly here about where I disagree with you on the NH.

 

Yup and I stand by what I said. What you said and what I said are two different things...oh dear.

 

Apologising for something you do a lot loses it's weight. I recommend just lightening up.

No more post from me on this matter as again, it's getting a bit Headfi-ish for me.

 

While the Nighthawk's bass when taken by itself is not muddy, the overall presentation could be described as underwater or bloated. To call it "a little bit warm" is either disingenuous or an evaluation by someone who is simply inexperienced in judging neutral tonal balance.

While I am open to the possibility of the NH changing after X many hours of burn-in, 200hrs is also approximately the amount of time it takes for an "audiophile" to get used to overt colorations. I would gauge that NH lovers are simply getting used to this specific sound in this case.

There's still a lot to like about the NH, and I think it has a lot of potential in the mid-priced space after some strategic EQ.

 

Is it just me or does the NightHawk maybe deserve its own corner where people can debate about its relative merits ad infinitum? Never heard it myself, but it sure seems like a ridiculously polarizing can.

 

I said it's a little warm because when I use these for mixing they actually match my recordings really well while adding some extra mid bass, my guess is to either help with the slight Biocellulose treble roughness or simply for fun. When people talk about neutral they very rarely seem to know what it means( not implying you don't as I don't know what your background is) So far all these so-called neutral headphones make my mixes either sound thin or bloated like mad.

The 650 for me has a very ideal curve for music enjoyment and for sounding familiar and natural (I love this bloody headphone) I have to ask myself why is the NH accuracy playing my recording? Surely this is accuracy even if my ears are saying differently. I am only a novice in the technical side but my listening experience is vast which is why it took my so long to get used to the NH as it just did things differently compared to what I'm used to.

I would love to see what Bob Katz or other experience guys in the technical side thinks of the NH for mixing.


It's funny the NH seems to cause so many disagreements everywhere! Haha

 

Yeah I was thinking the same LOL I remember the 650 being pretty controversial a while back but it also had a highly popular following. Hardly anyone seems to like the NH much on here and A lot of other places. I do feel I've got used to the cup verb which can make them sound a little odd so I don't think they make good first impression headphones which in audio is all it takes to gain interest.

 

I usually do more reading than posting but felt compelled to join in, since I happen to also own the headphones in question. @YtseJammer I'm in agreement with you about the Nighthawks. Of course at the end of the day, every one's entitled to their own opinions and preferences, as it should be. My personal audio experience through the NHs has been highly enjoyable and enlightening (off the m9XX). And I was surprisingly smitten with these from first plug-in, 0 burn-in. Like @Ryanr1987, I find the NHs to be quite accurate to the character of any particular track. Then due to their low distortion, they seem equally revealing of the capabilities of upstream gear (good or bad). Overall TBH, I'd personally describe the Nighthawks as naturally clear with excellent listening and wearing comfort.

If you don't keep your mind open about these, I think it's easy to miss what truly makes them special; not calling anyone closed-minded. These were enlightening to me because I learned or maybe re-learned that a lot can depend on one's perspective; I also learned to always trust your ears above those of others. If you're firmly entrenched in the camp that largely accepts the contemporary "audiophile/neutrally balanced" over-ear tuning as spot-on, you may easily discount the NHs as muddy or underwater. That perspective may trump your objective readings because you look at or listen to them with a particular lens, if you will. The NHs offer you a different perspective while trying to buck the majority one. IME, it very much succeeds, with a tonal balance that is truer to the audio to me (ofc within the limits of a headphone experience). Here's the thing though, those that deeply appreciate the NHs are ecstatic to have found these. Those that don't are no less happier because to them, they're missing out on nothing. It's a win-win really. The polarizing discussion on the NH's tuning/tone might never die or we may find that in time, it gradually sways more to one side. Either way, be thankful for whatever you're fortunate enough to enjoy this Thanksgiving!

 

The Nighthawks seem to be able to cause disagreements and arguments like no other headphone. I need to hear them.

I do think that something different can be interesting and better or worse depending on your preferences and habits.

About the only aspects that do not seem open to preferential debate is that they have remarkably low distortion and some definite cup reverb.

I read a lot about the vocals sometimes seeming like they are coming from behind a cloud of smoke. Could someone tell me how they handle male vocals like Nick Cave, Robert Smith or Tom Waits? That is always my go to headphone test. Get that wrong and I have to walk away.

Cheers.

 

They have a weighty, fleshed out lower mid range so male vocals sound great IMO. The Nighthawk and HD650 are my go to for all things vocal. They have a bit of a haunting character so vocals can sound quite lush and I guess, dreamy. You would have hear them yourself but I will say give them some time and don't A-B them with other headphones until you've adjusted because the presentation is different than most phones I've tried.

For me the NH sound best for long listening sessions they just seem to bring you in and you just find yourself not judging any aspect of the headphone.

 

This is one of the best post that I have read here in a long time

 

What I was thinking...

Looked up this thread expecting to see impressions about the Omni, but the last page has been all NH-related.

I've got a pair of Cocobolo Omni's inbound (for the second time) and though I've not really had time to check out the Hawks, I did own the X00 for a while. I'll confirm once it arrives, but I distinctly remember selling the Fostex because of it's somewhat sucked out midrange. The mids are certainly what makes or breaks a headphone for me, and the Omni is much better in this regard. They're rich and lush, a la Audeze. I have a different amp/DAC for my headphones than I did when I owned them before, but I think this rig will be better. Audio-gd NFB 29 puts a lot more power into those T50 drivers than the old Pan Am did.

 

Hoping to juice this thread a little bit.

Finally got a pair of Nighthawks to compare to the Omnis. Only have about an hour on the NH and in an effort to be fair, I'll give 'em several more to 'open up.'

First impressions are pretty good though. The first time I heard the 'hawks I thought they were a little dark (I'm a Grado-head). Giving them a fair shake via Spotify premium for a longer session than before shows that they aren't as dark as previously thought. The bass is dang delicious, and the midrange is pretty solid. The treble definitely rolls off a little sooner than I'm used too, but that's the case with the Omni's also.

Compared to the Omni, first point of order: Nighthawks are way more comfortable. The Omni feels much bigger and cumbersome in comparison. The 'hawks are also much easier to drive, getting plenty of power from my iPhone alone while the Omni needs to be maxed out to even be listenable. Both cans do have a somewhat similar sound signature with the low end being the dominant part of the spectrum and gently sloping off as you go up into the midrange and treble region.

I'll keep you guys posted - I know you wait with baited breath for my findings!

 

Call me crazy but the NightHawk are now my favorite headphones. (And I was also a Grado guy in the past..)

@JoeDoe, the NH will sound even better after 150/200 hours of mental burn-in

 

Uh oh...

 

Yes, its own special corner, as befits the company.

 

Hey, I'm new here. I was trying to access the Omni's frequency response graphs, but don't have access. Can anyone assist? Thanks.