ZMF Verite Closed

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Vtory, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. AnusProbus

    AnusProbus New

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    Does the Verite closed have a higher resolution and detail retrieval of the ether c flow 1.1?
     
  2. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    @AnusProbus: introducus thyself before ye askus anymore questions.
     
  3. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    100% agree.

    And to say it another way, please be less of an anus before you do more of the probus. ;) |{

    (and to answer your original question as someone who owns both the Ether C 1.1 and the Verite C LTD, yes, the VC does retrieve more detail than the EC - that's in fact one of the reasons I bought the VC's after many years of being happy with the ECs)
     
  4. AnusProbus

    AnusProbus New

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    OK sorry guys, my name is James, I'm a biomedical engineer intern at the time, I love sound and sound gear, just too poor to enjoy the finest.
    Currently got rme adi-2 dac and u18t which was gifted to me by my privileged uncle as he got out of hobby.
    That's about all of me.. Rest has been school school school and no social life.
    I chose the screen name as I saw it on some other forum and laughed at it! Glad it wasn't taken here ahah
     
  5. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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  6. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    They do the same the perf Veritè pads do on VO.

    Flatten the FR a bit, tilt it a bit towards treble, shrinks the stage but sharpens the imaging.
     
  7. nnotis

    nnotis New

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    Can VC listeners here make any spec generalizations about what kind of amp works best with them? Also, has anyone heard the notch at 500 Hz that Grover Neville mentioned in his review? He seems to have had a selection of gear on hand, but I wonder if it was a wonky pairing that produced the notch? These aren't planars, after all.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Answering good questions in PM

    All closed headphones will have some bit of funky reverberation. I actually feel this is well controlled in the Elegia.

    If you hear a bit of this in the Atticus, then the Verite Closed is even worse (or better depending upon how you see it) in this regards.

    Here is a rough ordering of the reverb and wood resonance effect in rough order. Other ZMFphiles feel free to chime in. Some of the below is from memory.

    Verite Closed >> Atticus > Verite Open > Aeolus > Autuer
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  9. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Yes, the reverb/resonance in the VC is realitively significant and non-neutral. I am not sure where the Eikon would be in @purr1n order as I have not heard the Atticus/Aeolus/Autuer, but I can tell you the Eikon this effects is much better damped/controled, so if you are sensitive to this effect and looking for the ZMF sound and don't mind losing that extra bit of technical attack/speed of the Verite (but at the same time you gain a more traditional tonality and timbre), the Eikon might be for you.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Thanks for feedback. Thinking about it more, added extra ">" to the Verite closed. Eikon I think would be around Aeolus level.
     
  11. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    The "cup reverb" or as I often describe it - "decay" can also be controlled by the density of the wood. The MonkeyPod/stock version of the V Closed has it in spades as you mentioned @purr1n - but if you move to leopardwood or harder, like the Ironwood, it's almost completely gone (not totally!) but it is lessened to a great degree because of the higher damping factor of the dense wood. This is true throughout our line-up and especially so in the closed models.

    This can also be controlled to a lesser extent by the damping factor of the amp - often I will pair the harder wood with a higher impedance OTL amp at shows to get some back, and a softer wood with a lower impedance amp to take a little away. There's definitely a middle area that I like most.
     
  12. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    I agree with this.

    Adding the amendment (and one of my own), It would be something like:

    Verite Closed >>> Atticus > Verite Open >> Aeolus > Auteur > Eikon.

    And yes, that isn't a typo. To my ears, the Eikon has the least cup reverb out of all ZMFs (this is supported by measurements).
     
  13. DEATHxMACHINE

    DEATHxMACHINE Friend

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    Based on my experience reverb is almost entirely based on the wood density/porosity and the amount of it aka open vs closed. Rusted zebra wood Atticus >>paduk eikon>teak autuer=sapele aeolus>>ironwood verite closed.
     
  14. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    Yeah totally - if everyone were to make lists, it likely would have more to do with what model they heard with what wood, vs just the model of headphone themselves.

    The biocel driver of the eikon and auteur innately has more decay than the tpe or Be driver, but this decay has nothing to do with cup reverb and more to do with impulse response and such. So there's a few factors at play including the subjective interpretation of what cup reverb is or isn't.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Reverb is a function of time vs amplitude, which changes in different ways at points in time. It's entirely possible folks can be expressing different things, differences between wood resonance and actual internal cup reverb. Nevertheless, I would be hesitant recommending the Verite Closed, no matter the wood, to the person who asked considering he even found Elegia to have issues related to closed headphones.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  16. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I think I am hearing and trying to talk about "actual internal cup reverb". I have a Monkey Pod VC, so a softwood, and a Eikon Camphor Burl, so a hard(er) wood example. Still, as I understand it the internal cup reverb is more of a design/damping materials thing the nature of the materials the cup is made out of...
     
  17. pure5152

    pure5152 Friend

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    I agree with zach, wood density/hardness matters. When I had the pheasantwood verite open and the ironwood verite closed at the same point, I thought the pheasantwood verite open (1,490 janka, 50 lbs/ft^3) had a perceptually longer delay than my ironwood verite closed (3,260 janka, 75 lbs/ft^3), so the whole "verite closed has definitely more cup reverb than verite open etc" absolute without qualifying wood is just pretty ridiculous for me.

    Just want to get this off my chest, I've gotten pretty annoyed with people making claims (on here or otherwise) about how all verite closed headphones sound, esp. regarding cup reverb, without making qualifying their statements based on the type of wood used -- it's honestly a bit misleading. That's why I've always tried to emphasize the wood in any impressions I've done, I think it matters and should be noted (unrelated, but the transformer type for the 3F should also be noted in impressions as well, something I've seen people omitting too).

    Yes, I've compared the same headphone in different woods in the past (purpleheart eikon vs cherry eikon) and yes there was a significant perceptual difference in decay, with the cherry sounding much more reverby than the purpleheart.
     
  18. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    Interesting note. While I have very limited experience regarding the effects that wood has on the ZMFs, at the SoCal meet I did get a chance to directly compare silk Verite and cocobolo Verite. I'm not sure where they fall in terms of how porous/dense/janka, but I did note that the sonic differences, while definitely audible, would not be something that I'd agonize over (the caveat here being meet conditions of course). My thought was that the design of the headphones themselves played most of the role in terms of the actual reverb effect, with the wood resonance, while affecting the reverb characteristics, is separate from the design itself.

    I tried to allude to this in the compendium thread by using the examples of pianos; I got an opportunity before to try out two Steinway @ Sons baby grands, but made of different woods. Taking into account that the pianos were in entirely different sections of the store, the resonant characteristics of the different woods was apparent, with one piano recognizably having richer overtones than the other, while also exhibiting slightly different decay characteristics (if anyone is curious, I ended up getting an upright due to spatial constraints. Those of you who came to the SoCal ZMFestivus have seen this piano). Again though, I wouldn't say the differences were huge.

    Another example here is my own ZMFs. Both my Auteur and my Verite are cocobolo (strange how that worked out), and I certainly hear the Verite as having more cup reverb despite having a much faster driver with much more controlled decay. Interestingly, both headphones show very similar characteristics in terms of the 'quality' of the reverb (the resonant properties), which I attribute to the woods being of the same species.

    While you may have a point, I'd see @purr1n's response here:
    *While I'm not certain I understand this to the point of being able to pick it apart and hear it myself, this is a marvelous point that is worth exploring if any ZMF owners get the opportunity to try out the same headphone you own in a different wood.

    I think the post that Marv, and by extension I, was trying to make by putting the headphones in order of cup reverb is doing our best to isolate that singular characteristic, obviously with all other variables being equal.

    That being said, including the type of wood in impressions for ZMF stuff would definitely be helpful.

    I still maintain that the cup reverb (the actual design) has the greatest effect, with the wood resonance being possible in ZMFs due to the cup reverberation and thus affecting the sound of the reverb itself. I'm not an expert though, so someone who would know more (*cough @zach915m cough*) can feel free to call me out on being a blowhard and idiot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Test by applying Dynamat to cup.
     
  20. tusing

    tusing New

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    I have the Monkeypod VC, so reverb is pretty high. For what it's worth, I think the reverb on the ZMF sounds beautiful and works surprisingly well with the fast beryllium drivers. The reverb adds a ton of "weight" to the sound - it feels more voluminous, if that is the right descriptor.

    The VC is, for me at least, the king of casual listening. You get an enveloping, immersive sound without sacrificing imaging or speed (which are among the best in their class).

    For mastering or precise sound I might go to my HD800S or RAAL SR1a but if I'm 100% honest with myself, I do not find myself using them as much as the VC.
     

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