Schiit Ragnarok 2

For some reason I thought he mentioned a Chord Hugo,, but can’t seem to find that in the post anymore… or was that in his signature that’s gone now?

Whoopseee he just posted that above

 

Hi.
With which speakers are Ragnarok 2 have better synergy?Looking only for bookshelfs.

 

So I bought the Rag 2 and paired it with a BF 2/64. I have Triangle Comete 40th anniversary. I find them lacking bass for the first time when I got the Rag 2. I had a Quad Vena 2 and a SMSL AO200 (which I used with the Bifrost 2/64) These had a lot more low end, but are not as good in any other way to the Rag 2. I wouldn't even say it's quality low end with those amps, especially the SMSL as it was using their sdb bass bost.
I guess I would look for something with more bass then my Triangles is the best thing I could say. I will try integrating a sub at some point. I tried my Elac Carina and it was a nicer match.
I also have a Bifrost 2 OG module ordered to see if that makes any difference.

 

Thank you lerrens you have tapped into my poor impulse control on this.

I have had my Rag 2 for a day now. I don’t want to go into too much detail until I live with it for a while….and make sure I am not being too biased by new toy syndrome alone. However I do want to get some initial impressions out of the way now while my memory is fresh because it is the third amp in the same system this week and it is only Thursday.

I am streaming from an Eversolo DMP-A6 into a Yggdrasil LIM and my speakers are Mission 700s. I am also running a Golden Ear Forcefield 3 sub. I have not tried the headphone side yet and just want to compare amps. So it will be the Rag vs a Kara feeding either a Pioneer M22 or Vidar. My room is not large at only 256 square feet which is why I can get away with running the Pioneer with these speakers. I also want to mention that I have used the Pioneer with more efficient speakers in the past and it did, of course, handle them better than in my current room. The problem is high efficiency speakers tend to be larger and my room is small.

Getting to point here. I have heard that the Rag lacks a bit of quantity on low bass but that the quality is still there. With my speakers I will say that it sounds just about perfect at normal listening volume but does lack a bit when turned down. Now the lower octaves do that on all systems which is one reason we used to have loudness switches. This happens with the other two amps as well but they both have more bass so it doesn’t stand out as much. To be fair both other amps are also being influenced by the Kara and if I were not lazy I would compare both other amps using the Rags pre out. I have no interest in running it this way so did not try.

Mid bass is not lacking at all even at low volumes. From the midpoint up there is simply much more. I don’t know if you would call it forward or plankton or just flat out more detailed. It reminds me of a tube amp here or maybe the first time I heard HD800s after living with HD650 and OG LCD 2 for a long time. Separation and soundstage follow suit. It is not bright or fatiguing but very smooth. Bass aside, it is far more enjoyable to listen to at low volume in my system. I might throw the Lokius in there for low volume listening just for the sub bass.

So far I think this is an utterly remarkable sounding amp. I just wouldn’t want to pair it with bright sounding speakers.

 

Must resist, even though my JBL 4312G yearns for this..

 

I also find the Ragnarok 2 sound leaner compared to my Audiolabs 6000A, lacking a bit of sub bass quantity when listening to LS50 alone, but since I'm using LS50 with KC62, it's not too much of a drawback for me, and mids up it's a definite upgrade.
Glad you like it and find it preferable over Vidar and M22, hope to hear more about your impressions on the headphone side!

I'm still stunned by how the HD650 scaled, especially after I've borrowed a pair of HD660S2 and tested both with Rag2. The 660S2 did not scale that much, which makes the HD650 jumped up a solid tier above HD660S2 and it's crazy. I won't believe it if not hearing it first hand.

 

With which version of speakers Ragno 2 will be better?Looking between LS50 or LS50 meta.Dac - Yggi OG A1

 

If you don’t want in your face upper mids, get the meta.

 

Superb sound quality with chain Yggi->Ragno 2 ->LS50
But with turntable ->Nagaoka MP500->Skoll-> Ragno 2 - Sounds very soft and like LS50 underpowered.

 

Check your Skoll setting perhaps?

 

setted on 70db

 

Yeah that is strange. The gain on my phono stage is a little low, running a Fosgate Signature Tube Phono currently, so I expected to have to turn the volume or gain up vs the Yggdrasil. And I think there is less gain being single ended unless Nexus is supposed to affect that? Not sure. But in your case the Skoll is balanced and you said it is set to 70db so you would think it wouldn’t matter

 

You can ask Schiit about it

 

Noticed,that with chain Yggi->Ragno 2 ->LS50 - speakers sounds more transparent.
But with Nagaoka MP500->Skoll-> Ragno 2 - Sounds less transparent,and most peak on frequency 250-400hz - which I dont like.I'll think about buying EQ.But anybody faced with same issue?

 

I want a 2nd Rag for the office. I really love its authority and grace. Very nimble and capable name.

 

Some of us are trying (very hard) not to buy it. Just so you know.

 

If that is so, methinks you've come to the wrong place.

 

A few more weeks with it and few more observations.

Separates aside, this is the sound I have been chasing in a non-tubed integrated for the last 15 years. Sounds more powerful than it really is, effortless midrange with real presence and smooth treble that manages to be non fatiguing without getting there by rolling off.

I initially did not see the reason for the highest gain stage, but as an experiment last night I mounted a zu dl103 and ran it through my Cary PH 302 phono stage. I normally would not do this because the phono stage does not really have enough gain for this cart, but the Rag is so quiet I thought I could use its’ additional gain stage to compensate…and it worked! Running the volume dial at 3 o’clock but still, it works. Pretty cool. I always loved this phono stage but was thinking about selling it because it is so hard to match in a system. It really wants a medium output cart and there are not a lot of those around.

I also put it to work as a headphone amp. So far have used HD650, HD800, ZMF Atticus, LCD2 and Focal Clears. I can’t switch amps out quickly so the impressions that follow are more subjective observations rather than real a/b comparisons. Also, for simplicity’s sake, I only used the LIM as a source here. Ran it against a MJ3, Kenzie Ovation and Eddie Current Super 7.

It sounds really good with everything I have and is my favorite pairing with the HD800. There is something about the smoothness of the amp or maybe just because it is not trying to make the HD800 sound like something it is not that really helps it shine. Sort of a non destructive way of just enjoying this one for what it is even though it won’t work with all material or to everyone’s taste.

HD650 sounds great too. The other amps just do that little something extra here that the Rag isn’t. MJ3 and Super 7 slam harder. I prefer the tone with the other amps as well…a little more romantic with the Amps and Sound…this isn’t a knock, I consider the other three to be truly special and the fact that the Rag stays in the same ballpark while excelling as a speaker amp is special in and of itself.

For sure a good pairing with the Atticus, it just seems like the MJ3 and even more so the Kenzie are made for each other. If I wasn’t amp rich right now I might not know any better but the synergy between the ZMF and the Kenzie is just too hard to turn away from.

Ran out of time with the other two and only compared the Rag and Kenzie. I could tell the LCD 2 appreciated the extra current of the Rag and I really am starting to think the Focal only scales a little bit no matter what.

***Also important. I am rearranging and organizing a couple of rooms right now and lost all my balanced headphone cables except the Focal ones. I realize this really could affect what I am getting out of both pieces of Schiit and thought it was worth mentioning.

 

So, I broke down and got a Rag 2.

Part of it was the excellent write up by @lerrens, and the other is that I had the opportunity to get speakers back into my life (actually, my home). The amp was on my radar, but not really on target for a buy. But then, I found myself with a deal on a used pair of LS50 Meta. Several years ago I had thought that I had give up 2 way due to a family move that necessitated losing a pair of Dynaudios and amp for a set of Sonos because our living space had shrunk. I had really missed the sound of nice speakers, and as much Sonos advertised “room filling sound” they weren’t really. The sound bar is good though, but not as backbone to music listening. So the LS50s (small!) found their way into my bedroom. And after reading lerrens’s write up on the Ragnarok 2, getting one at the Last Call price was a no-brainer for something to run them.

Anyway, I don’t write much, and I believe this has to do with just the life zapping routine of creating powerpoints, emails and DMs all day at work. Now when I write it’s just trying to make it clear when I need to, be vague when I have to, and mostly keep it short so that people will try to read what I put out before they get distracted by their phones or other matters. I'm not going into the nuances of timbre, spatialness, etc. but I'll share some thoughts.

My ramblings:

I won’t repeat too much as I get what lerrens had written. On the speakers, the Rag performed well. In the beginning there were some woolliness but that cleared up after running the unit for a couple of days. There was enough power to drive the speakers on Gain 2, which can get loud enough. I can’t say much about how the new system compares with my old two way set up because that was a different home and quite a while ago. The Dynaudios were no slouch and from memory were warmer and more musical than the LS50s; however, the Musical Fidelity that I was using at the time, while higher power rating, didn’t sound as “smooth” as the Rag. It’s smooth not as in details being smoothed over, but I would say more fluid sounding (if that makes sense).

What’s surprising about the Rag though is that, although it’s an integrated amp, the headphone is really really good. As lerrens mentioned, the Rag trades blows with MJ3. I would go so far as to prefer the Rag as it’s less attention grabbing than the MJ3 when I listen to music. And from a value perspective, I would take the Rag even not at the Last Call price because it works equally well with small room inefficient speakers (LS50) and power hungry headphones.

Speaking of which, since losing my speaker system from the previous move, I’ve kept the HE-6 stored away. I’ve tried the iha-6 (decent) but the Ragnorak had absolutely no problem with these. (Quick mention here that the MJ3 is no bueno with the HE-6 for me.) Still something missing with the Rag 2 on the HE-6, but I'm fairly happy that it's getting me 9 out of 10 without resorting to ancient amps of lore and direct speaker taps.

Lerrens also mentioned that the Senns work well with the Rag. I haven’t tried them to great extent, I did most of my listening with the ZMF Verite, which can sound a bit “held back” with decent amps sometimes, had lit up with the Rag. The power just had an absolute grip on the ZMFs. Versus the MJ3, the Rag is more even whereas the MJ3’s allure is that its sound just pops out. The MJ3 really engages you in that the music, but the Rag 2 is smoother and less pay-attention-to-me (and maybe in longer listens less tiring). The MJ3 is kind of like a TV on HD, and the Rag 2 is more like it's on cinema mode. I'm over-emphasizing here because the difference is more subtle.

What are some of the short comings with the Rag? I’d have to say that the bass, while there, didn’t have the quality of the DSHA on the same Verite. I haven’t listened to everything, but on tracks like Fiona Apple’s Sleep to Dream, the opening was more of a thud thud thud compared to the DSHA-3F’s more extended take. There is bass in the Rag2 and the MJ3, but just not quite as good as 3F. But the Rag is just a fraction of the cost, and for most music, the bass is more than adequate.

Other nit-picks:

• The pre-out mini-controversy. Would it be nice to not have pre-outs active when listening to headphones? I personally would prefer this, but I don’t have to use this feature. For $999, I’m not going to complain as I consider it as a throw-in.
• The ability to select headphone and speaker out at the same time. I don’t think this is a good idea, and Schiit probably would be better just making the selection either/or instead of and/or. One can easily press the output button and find their headphones are near breaking point.
• Not a big fan of the Raiders scheme with the knob and the buttons.
• As you can guess, I got the black. I actually like the look of the silver, but over the years, the quality of the silver finishes varies — different shades, to different textures. I think the more recent stuff are more consistent but black seems like a safe bet. And a black Just An Amp is $999. I said no to paying 10% more for silver that may or may not match the A2 DAC.
• Size. The Rag is huge. And heavy. It’s the biggest Schiit gear I own, or any audio gear I own. You have to make room for it. But it’s probably worth your while to make room for this. Besides, since it’s integrated, you don’t have to think about getting an amp (or 2 monos) and a pre. The Rag’s got you covered.

Observations:

• It’s not cool to the touch. Just warmish. Nowhere near MJ3’s class A heat.
• The potentiometer’s click noise doesn’t bother me as much as some people complain about. You can hardly hear it when turning it with headphones on, nor when using the remote away from the amp in speaker mode.

Absolute fan of:

• Value. A really really good integrated. A really really good headphone out. Buy one, and get the other free and for less than a thou.
• 3 gains that sound different on headphones. (I have to find time to discern any differences on speakers.)
• Powerful enough for small speakers. Absolute overkill for headphones.
• Remote control. You come to appreciate a remote when using it as a speaker amp.
• Did I mention that it’s less $1k?

If there’s going to be a Rag3 wish list:

• A DAC card more to the level of a Gungnir or Yggdrasil.
• Shorter case, like the Yggdrasil+. I’m not sure if this can happen as the component inside that requires the height is the power supply.
• Reconfigured pre output, and a safer way to select headphone/speaker outs.

Final thoughts:

I missed speakers. How did I get into this rabbit hole with headphones and use specific amps that cost more than the Rag 2 and some decent speakers? I think it has to do with not wanting disturb my family when I want to enjoy music, but seriously the value proposition of $2k+ headphones and amps makes me scratch my head. Oh yeah, I forgot that speaker systems can get way nuts too.

I think if you're just kind of starting out with a fair budget, you can't really go wrong with a Rag 2 Fully Loaded with and a pair of Sennheiser HD600/650. And when you're ready to grow, add some decent speakers to your life.