HiFiMAN HE1000 v2 + HEX v2 release soon?

Just posted this on headfi but likely to be deleted. Posting here as this site seems to be better suited for honest discussion.

"TBH, I'm a bit disgruntled with Hifiman. Sure the SQ hasn't changed with the release of the V2's, but the market value of the V1's has taken a big hit. Just look at the number of HE-1000's on sale right now.

I enjoy trying out new gear and my ability to do this is dependent on reselling gear at a reasonable loss. Sadly, I have to accept that my "investment" of the HE-1000's (for which I am the original owner of) was a big loss, in less than one year of purchase.

If Hifiman really cared about early adopters of the HE-1000's, they would have rolled out the V2 changes as accessory upgrades (i.e., pads, cable) as opposed to a new headphone release. It looks like they were more interested in selling more units than cultivate a core fanbase who many of whom, like myself, were early adopters. This strategy may benefit them in a short-term, but in a niche market like high-end headphones, this may hurt them in long run if they were to lose the support of core constituents.

I currently own three Hifiman headphones. The HE-1000's was a must buy for me after how much I loved the HE-6's. I was similarly excited for the Shangri-La as I generally prefer electrostatics over dynamics, but this is no longer the case. I used to be a big supporter of their brand when they were known for selling high-end gear at affordable prices, but it looks like this is not their identity anymore.

BTW, they chose the wrong flagship to release a V2 for. It should have been the HE-6's."

 

Id welcome a V2 He-6 also but too bad it's discontinued.

Anyway 'Investing' in TOTL headphones is a terrible idea IMO. I always expect to them to lose a considerable amount of value after I purchase. That keeps me from buying them all

 

"High performance cables have always been a mainstay of HIFIMAN"

Shame on me, I always mix them up with that other HIFIMAN, the ones who supply horrid stiff, microphonic cables that you can't wait to replace with something more biddable. Easily done, I guess.

 

Perhaps my use of "investment" wasn't the best wording. Depreciation is probably a better word. Specifically, I meant to convey that a depreciation of over $1000, in my case, seems steep for a headphone that just came out last year. Perhaps with the recent trend of sky rocketing prices of flagships, I should shift my expectations of headphones holding up their value.

 

Might be going off topic a bit here, but I think the value you place on a headphone should come purely from what you believe the headphone is worth, not how much the current market value is. Putting aside the ability to resell your items without too much of a loss (we'll get to that later), shouldn't one go into a big headphone purchase with the mindset of either:

1) "I'm willing to drop $3k on a headphone without knowing whether I'll like it or not, but I love the thrill of getting a new TOTL headphone and trying new gear. However, I understand that most TOTL gear does not hold their value well because it's very much dependent on how favorable it's received by the community, but this is the risk I accept."

OR

2) "This headphone has been out for a while now. The hype has died down, measurements from different sources are in. Reviews and impressions from different people are in. It has been tried with various dacs and amps, and it's generally accepted that X and Y are good pairings. After a lot of reading and discussion, I've decided that this is the right headphone for me."

Factoring resale value now. In the first case, you got the headphone while it was new so you still have time to sell it if you end up not liking it while the hype is still there and there are very few used items on the market. In the second case, I don't think resale value is that important. You put in the time and effort to figure out that this headphone is probably worth X to you, so the only reason you bought it is if the price is equal to or less than X. The fact that other people want it less (price of it goes down) after the fact shouldn't really concern you.

But in this second case, if part of your goal is to pick out gear that holds value well so you can enjoy it and still have the option to sell it without a big loss.... man I think that's a dangerous game to play. Unless you have the uncanny ability to predict both how good or bad a particular product is and how much people in the community will be willing to pay for it as time goes on, then it's more or less a gamble.

Having said all that, your views are certainly legitimate, and I'm glad we're all encouraged to voice our opinions about any product or brand. The fact that you and a lot of others have stated what you believe the HE-1000 is worth to you whether it's $1000 or $2000, is important because you're all data points that Hifiman's market research and finance team have to take into consideration when pricing their future products. The fact that you want a product to hold its value over time is a legitimate demand. The fact that you want a company to adhere to a certain set of practices that you believe is fair and ethical is also a legitimate demand. So voice your opinions and vote with your wallets! (and maybe someday we'll drive endgame gear prices down to something I can afford....)

 

Swamp, great points and I appreciate your respectful tone in rebuttal. I agree that moving forward, I'm going to let my ears determine the value of the headphone as opposed to the MSRP or market value.

With the HE-1000's, it was a combination of hype and reverence for the HE-6 that got me to take the plunge on the HE-1000s (purchased from retailer with a slight discount), whereas normally I buy used. Looking back, I recall not being too impressed with the HE-1000's when I first heard it at canjam but I rationalized that it would take work to get the right system synergy for it, as was the case for my HE-6's which sounded too bright/sibilant/artificial at beginning. Thus, I probably fall into the first category you mention. I should have trusted my ears then and it is a lesson learned.

Regarding #2, I don't mind if the HE-1000s depreciated this much after many years but the V2 really sunk its value quickly on used market. In comparison, the value of Sennheiser HD-800's held up since 2009 until recently with release of the HD800S. I would have no problem if I was an early adopter of the HD800 V1 ($1600), got to enjoy them for 5-6 years and then value dropped to 50% or so on used market when V2 was released. The HE1000's on other hand has dropped to 55% to 60% already in one year.

I get that purchase should be about enjoyment of SQ and not about investing or resale value. However, for someone like me who can't just sink costs into headphones, the resale value does matter to keep the this hobby sustainable as it pertains to summit-fi.

 

You would think that a headphone that costs "about" 10x what an hd6X0 costs would captivate you for at least a few years so I get the hard feelings the early adopters have today.
If you don't want to get burned and cash is a "finite" resource for you then you should buy NOTHING in year one, especially without trying it yourself. Not a vehicle, not a headphone, NADA. If you have the means, then congratulations and do please post your impressions early and often for those of us who are too cheap

Edited to say... that I wish someone could ask HFM (and perhaps Mr. Speakers too) If a "flagship" is really a "flagship" if it needs to be updated/replaced within 12 months?

 

The HD650's are a great example of a headphone that still competes with the best and is so reasonably priced that it never crossed my mind to resell. I've definitely got more enjoyment out of my HD650s over past six years than my HE-1000's with much less buy-in, despite the latter being technically better (although even this is arguable).

 

$2000: Stax 009
$1500: Sennheiser HD800, Hifiman HE-6 and HE-1000, Stax 007
$1000: Sennheiser HD650

So hey, I'll probably end up selling the HE-1000 around for what I think is worth for me relative to my other phones.

 

Used market on these is slowly dropping. Been watching BoynamedSue's price creep down for about a month. Once it hits $1500- $1300 on used market I bet there is a resurgence and it will be accessible to the next tier of headphone dudes. Im sure more mods and mod guides will pop up. If build quality was only a bit more robust...

 

It says a lot about how much a headphone was hyped up and marketed relative to how well it actually performs when you compare the MSRP and current market price to how much you're willing to pay for it.

 

HE-500 was easily the worst stock cable I've ever seen, never knew cables could made that annoying. Non-stop kinks and microphonics that penetrated your eardrums everytime you knocked the cable

 

Agreed - the twisted silver cable gave the HE-500 a cheap feeling that belied its great sound...

 

Here is my take on the V1 & V2...

I had 3 HEK V1:

1st= good build, nice relaxed sound.

2nd= poor build, (squeaky metal, plastic piece holding sockets instead of aluminum, loose headband adjuster click on right side , loose socket right side, and finally, right side driver sounding more lively than left side.)

This is not a defect.
This was a period of change.
There is a change in the driver's, from the older units, to the newer ones sounding more lively.

So my first unit sounded like the left side, and my latest 3rd unit sounded like the right side, (more lively).

I would say the difference would be noted as an even elevation about at around a 4-6db elevation of the volume of the mids and trebles region.

Furthermore, it seems that the latest drivers do not have the black smooth coating on the magnet structure.
They are now a dry grey pitted material.
I know because my latest 3rd unit V1 unit has them.
They are the same grey driver units in the V2.

This is logical as they told me they will discontinue the V1 after the V2 upgrade comes in October.


3rd unit= this unit had good build, and slight more lively sound than 1st unit.
It is, to me, a welcome refinement as the soundstage is the same size.

The only issue I have now, is the stupid sockets...
They simply don't grab my aftermarket cables.

So, knowing full well HiFiman can't do nothing for me about this, except replace them again for same or worse issues,
I decided to keep them before my luck runs out, (They wanted me to wait for V2 upgrade).

To solve my socket problem,
I simply used a needle nose pliers to grab the top metal contact, and push in slightly.
This lowers the metal internal contact, so it will now grab under the plug tip head.
Now my heavy cables won't pop out.

So that's the story with the HEK,
From my perspective and experience.

 

Where did that article even get the news that the HE1k and HEX had revisions coming out in September? Does hifiman announce this stuff on headfi? Because their website has nothing about this.

Also, I guess the v2 is already out? Skimmed the HE1k thread on headfi and people were giving their impressions on the v2.

 

I don't know about any misinformation or articles.

I only know what HiFiman emailed me.

They said if I waited , the upgrade should come early next month.

So even this customer service email may not have full correct information,
So no way some article will know.

The newer driver looks grey because the magnet bars have been reinforced as they are thicker on top.
This is my own observations.

 

Hi Maxx,
It seems that you have 2 HEKs. Why not get 1 HEK V2 to own both versions of HEK?
Did they charge you for V2?

 

I opted out of waiting for the V2 upgrade they were going to offer me.
I can't wait that long. (Next month).
I rather have my V1 and listen to V2 before I make a move,
So I did not get a V2 yet..
Edit*
As for a charge, I assumed they would, but since I had an issue they might have not charged me much if at all.