Cable Building

DC resistance of 25' 16 GA copper cable is 0.100 ohms
14 GA 0.063 ohms
12 GA 0.040 ohms
10 GA 0.025 ohms

If 4 ohm speakers, 25' of 16 GA eats 2.5% of amp output; 1.25% if 8 ohm
So yeah, you could knock that down to 1%/0.5% with 12 GA
Whether that is audible in any way, I would think not, but dunno for sure

 

Is it 25' total or just one way?

Depends on the actual impedance response of the speakers. If it was a constant 4 Ohm, probably not a huge difference.
Though in my experience even 3.4mm² vs 6mm² (12 AWG vs 10 AWG) nets you a slightly higher SPL, but it's noticeable. At least with a SS amp with near zero output impedance.

In other words... 16AWG seems kinda thin to me for such a long cable. 12 AWG should be fine, but I normally like to use thick cables for speakers. There are exceptions like my Voxativs which I specifically run with a 0.2 Ohm cable impedance.

 

@dasman66 for something similar to the Duelund wire and I think nicely smooth sounding you can just get tinned copper and sleeve it with cotton yourself. I used copper shielding mesh and a natural cotton (non-dyed) tube for my smaller speakers. That's likely a bit brighter sounding than the warm Duelund wire.

Marine or solar wire (tinned copper in some sort of XLPE) is even cheaper and not bad sounding in my experience, but it does have noticeably more bite to it. Same for tinned copper in PTFE. I haven't yet directly compared the two, but that's on my agenda.

For another type of tinned copper, Supra Ply 3.4 should be worth a look, I think. Slightly less bite than the PTFE or XLPE, but possibly a tad less resolving. (It's just PVC) I can't say for sure as I haven't directly compared the two, though.

 

The Supra Classics are also tinned copper and inexpensive here in Europe.

 

25' from the amp to the speaker, so 50' total. I might be able to make it a few feet shorter and plan to exact length at the speaker

Right now is will be a fonken enclosure with a Fostex FE108EZ, which I believe it rated at 8ohm. I also have some FE168EZ that I'm planning to put in either a BLH or a frugelhorn... but that's probably a bit down the road as I never seem to have the time.

I saw your examples earlier in the thread. Unfortunately, those look a little delicate for where this is going (office) so I'm looking for a more commercial wire that is more robust/durable.

Recommendations rec'd so far (here and elsewhere):

• Belden 5T00UP (10 AWG) - $2.00/ft
• Canare 4s11 (14 AWG) - $1.50/ft
• Canare 4s11g (14 AWG) - $2.00/ft
• Belden 9497 (16 AWG) - $1.10/ft
• Dueland tinned copper (16 AWG) - ~$7/ft for the dual... I also see a 12AWG version for $38/ft
• Supra Ply 3.4 (12 AWG) - $4.30/ft
• Supra Classics (9, 11, 13, 15 AWG) - $1.25-$4/ft
• Monoprice 2747 (12 AWG) - $0.75/ft

All seem readily available to me. The deuland cost is considerably more... and while I usually take a "buy big once & don't buy again" strategy, the 12AWG is way out of my league. Even the 16AWG is more than I wanted to spend... Problem is that I don't know where the point of diminishing returns is for the speakers I'll be using.

 

I'm using cheap OFC in-wall cable from Amazon and think it sounds pretty good:
16ga - https://a.co/d/h83L6QL $0.39/ft
12ga - https://a.co/d/gTZo4sn $0.69/ft

 

Supra’s tinned copper has been a hit or miss for me. I like their USB cable which uses their tinned copper. But I also own their tinned copper power cable and interconnects and both have been a bust. The power cable sounds very lively and dynamic with good details in the mids, but has a bright tone and an edgy character. The interconnect sounds decently balanced with nothing necessarily standing out. But it has a kind of a glassy sheen in the mids that gives an ever-so slight glassy sheen to the tone and smooths out the leading edges of the texture and micro dynamics.

Serious’ experience with Supra’s tinned copper power cable has been more positive than mine. Mine is the Supra terminated Lorad, whereas, Serious bought the Lorad bulk wire and used 3rd party connectors. I guess with certain combinations of connectors, it can sound good. But given my 1/3 success rate, I am no longer interested in Supra.

The tinned copper from Belden and Duelunds have been nice. I use the Belden 9497 for my speakers and had Duelunds as hook up wires in my amp. I have also heard the 847x series tinned copper from Belden and those are quite good too. These don’t excel in refinement or separation or bass dynamics, but they do have a nice midrange with good tone/timbre, inner detail and decay. And these will especially build on the strengths of the widebanders and would be my natural choice for widebanders in the budget segment.

P.S: On the other hand, if you are looking for a more Hi-Fi sounding, modern resolution centric cable, you may have to look elsewhere.

 

Supra cables are very system dependant. Works great in some and very poorly in others. Some say they make everything dull and smooths the treble. Others find it bright and harsh. I have had good success with their Lorad powercables and USB cables. Less so with their speaker and HDMI cables. Liked the IC cables I had too, but those where silver-plated. In Europe it easily available and pretty inexpensive. That's said I use Sommer Cables these days. The Supras for hookup wire inside speakers, as it is tinned.

 

You cant really tune your sound with cables until you have a benchmark. Id suggest starting with the cheapest 12 to 10 gauge copper stranded wire you can get ( that amazon cable mentioned above looks OK) , then see if you feel you need to upgrade. I move through speakers far more often than cables.

 

Well, here it is. Quick comparison using Hathor 2 way, cables from DAC to amp.


From top to bottom: Custom Mundorf SGF107/TC, Silver in oversized PTFE, Belden 8402 in cotton sleeve, Supra tinned copper, Audiocrast IC25, Sommer Carbokab


Mundorf SGF107 and tinned copper hybrid

• Technically the best of these. Most resolving, fastest, tightest sounding, most precise imaging, too
• Still smooth with a hint of sweetness in the timbre, but timbre only -
• Because the tonality is somewhat tipped up or at least somwhat bass light. It's a good synergy here, but it's something to note.

Silver in oversized PTFE

• Somewhat rounded and hazy in comparison
• Yet the treble is a bit staticky for lack of a better term. A bit jumpy maybe?
• Slightly warmer tonality, yet colder timbre. It sounds weird, I know.
• Probably mainly because it's U shaped in comparison.
• I like it more in this application than in the SE comparison, but I'm also using different plugs, the XLR input, etc
• Not as clear as the Audiocrast

Audiocrast IC25 silver in PTFE

• Smooth
• Super clean sounding
• Slightly warm sounding or maybe just a bit bassy
• Some haze, a little soft on the transients. Less so than the oversized PTFE, though
• Sounds a bit restrained, but overall this is a pretty good cable
• Has more sweetness and a hint of upper mid emphasis compared to the oversized PTFE
• May have an edge on the oversized PTFE in terms of resolution, but it's hazier, background is grey
• I think this will be my microphone cable from now on.

Sommer Carbokab

• Rolled off sounding on both ends
• Pretty slow sounding, sounds like it can't keep up
• Upper midrange is forward, but at least it's smooth
• Grey sounding
• Still, it's smooth, has a nice tonality. It sounds polished, but I would not call it refined
• The whole sound is hazy and so is the imaging

Belden 8402, sleeved in cotton

• It's more resolving than the Carbokab
• Also more neutral
• Bass is phat and lacks definition, upper bass emphasis
• Not as hazy as the Carbokab
• Has that grit

Supra tinned copper

• It's less colored, but also less resolving than the Belden
• Also lacks bass extension
• Still soft sounding, but this one isn't as gritty
• Overall not too bad especially considering the price
• Imaging seems to be better than the Belden, it's less grey, but also simplifies music in general

For reference: CSL Primewire 3 meter microphone cable (cheap Amazon XLR)

• Not as bad as I imagined
• Soundstage lacks depth, more than on any other cable
• Has that hash and sounds somewhat harsh
• Lower midrange focused sounding, but not in a good way
• Imaging is weird. Wants to appear focused, but it isn't
• Still, I wouldn't be too critical. If I'm honest the difference between this and the Carbokab isn't as big as between the Carbokab and the IC25.
  Is what I would say if it wasn't so harsh.
• But the treble does sort of kill it. It's harsh, it's sibilant, etc.

Overall I was surprised by how well the Audiocrast fared. I expected far worse. Also I seem to prefer the Belden to the Carbokab. The way I understood it this goes against the general consensus. Carbokab is less gritty than the Belden and has an arguably more neutral tonality. The bass isn't as uncontrolled and it has a nice timbre aswell. I can understand it, but I think it's less resolving. Could it be that the Seetronic plugs are better sounding than Neutrik XX series plugs?

 

Can you explain this combination of wire? I am unable to googler the SGF108. What tinned copper are you using? Curious minds want to know

 

It's the 11mm Silver/Gold foil cut into 2x 5.5mm strips that I made for my Voxativ drivers. I described the process here:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...al-ob-speaker-project.4083/page-4#post-376227

I had some leftover and decided to make a very special XLR cable. Why 107? The resulting area is equivalent to that of a 0.7mm wire and since that's the naming scheme of their other cables, I decided SGF107 was what it should be called.

The tinned copper is simply shielding braid sleeved with the same natural cotton insulation. I use this exact wire as a speaker cable for these speakers.
Subjectively it's smooth and has a full bodied or slightly warm tonality. My idea was to slightly tame the silver/gold foil that way. It's still a bit tipped up, though.

Edit: Oops it's closer to 0.7mm wire thickness in area. Changed the name to reflect that.

 

@Serious Thanks for the information. I will investigate. I have some leftover Duelund 20 awg tin plated copper hookup wire in cotton kicking around. I use the same wire, but at 12awg, as speaker wire with the new Harbeth XDs to great effect. I am thinking of doing a headphone cable with the trin plated copper hookup wire I have here to see what happens. Could be good/could be awful. I'll report back.

 

@Serious Interesting to read your thoughts on the Carbokab. I can recommend the Sommer Albedo if you want to test something similar in tone and timbre, but with more extension on top. It is a faster sounding cable too.

 

Some more cables:

Tinned copper HD600 cable that I mentioned in the other thread:

Same construction as my HD800 cable.
It's 2m25 long and I cut my HD800 cable to be the same length and made an extension cord with the rest. Turns out making it 4m long was a mistake after all

Compared to the stock cable it's more extended, has a smoother/more liquid presentation (I find the stock cable kind of grainy sounding) and it's clearer. However this is at the cost of some added sibilance. I wasn't so sure if I preferred it in the beginning but it's growing on me. I removed the back damping for now as it was overdamped, anyway.


I also made XLR to TRS adapters, which I compared. Pic attached.

Duelund AC0.4
-most transparent, slightly lacking in bass extension

Duelund DCA20GA
-soft sounding, but nice midrange tone. Lacks extension

TC marine
-keeps most of the midrange tone, but with better extension at the cost of a harder, slightly more sibilant sound

HD600
-lacks transparency and extension, sounds grey and veiled, slightly grainy. But it's not sharp

HD800
-Sharp, I can't

 

I did another thing: I didn't like how I had to use an adapter to use my RE272 IEMs from 4.4mm balanced outputs, but I wanted to keep it looking as original as possible. so I used the original cable.



I think it looks like it could've almost been this way from the start. I will compare it against the IE600 and IE900 like this when I get the chance.

Soldering was not fun, especially since I didn't know the pinout and made a couple mistakes. It ended up taking hours because I screwed up multiple times along the way and I almost ruined the 4.4mm balanced plug in the process.

There are three layers of heat shrink within the connector acting as strain relief. However there's nothing really protecting it against sharp bends at the end of the connector. I'll just have to hope it doesn't break.
Still, I'm pretty happy with how this turned out. Yeah, the aliexpress connector isn't quite the right color, but I do think it looks good.

 

Anyone know of some recessed mmcx connectors that work with the IE2/3/6/900 series from Sennheiser?

 

This is not for the faint of heart, but I just carefully chopped off the red and black rings around the MMCX sockets on my IE200s and now all my regular MMCX cables fit fine. It looks like Senn uses the same little plastic socket holder plastic pieces on all the IE series, regardless of the housing material, but I've not had an IE600 or IE900 in hand to inspect.

 

Yeah that's an option of course but that might void the warranty. I know there are third party cables with fitting connectors. I'm just wondering what they are so i can make my own cable.

 

Maybe bug Drew at Moon Audio as they offer aftermarket with what looks like a potentially DIY friendly recessed MMCX plug.