Life after Yggdrasil: Watering the Ash

Chord Dac64, QBD76HD, DAVE, Bryston BDA3, Gryphon Caliope, PS Audio Direct Stream, Rockna etc, etc, etc
I'm in this hobby for more than 40 years...
Just went through the last batch of measurements in Tyll's quest to clarify the situation of Utopia vs LCD4. Does this qualify headphones as the judge? Maybe..
Understanding and managing room acoustics, your speakers, the system's balance seams more feasible for me.
I do not want to challenge any of your believes, though.
I'm into headphones since hd600/650 appeared, and I'm enjoying my hd800 from time to time, But this is not the point. I simply cannot and will certainly not chose any dac, preamp, digital source using any headphones as a measuring tool.
Regards,
Vlad

 

....so this is superbestaudiofriends....
treating an opinion as ridiculous and elitist....
I got the picture.
Seams that the behav

Hi Marvey,
The beauty of our hobby, when we decide to share, resides in the fact that each of us resonates to something personal, and thus different.
Therefore we develop different experiences.
I'll skip the part where I'm cataloged, wrongly, rest assured...
Innerfidelity posted Bob Katz's comparison of Utopia and lcd4. The reference towards which the tonal character was compared, were his speakers, no other headphones.
I rest my case.

 

Vlad12,

I would suggest you are being way too thinned skinned and need to get a backbone. Then, I would try to understand what Marvey said about heapdphones before name dropping Bob Katz and how he used his speakers to compare the tonal character of certain headphones. What that has to do with evaluating DACs is a mystery.

 

You sound irrelevant in a forum that discusses mostly headphone gear and builds headphone rigs when you insist that testing DACs should be done on speakers.

WE ARE BUILDING HEADPHONE RIGS

 

Even if you aren't focused on headphone rigs, a headphone setup is still a great way to evaluate and compare DACs. If I want to pick out detail, I will always pick my headphone rig. If I want to evaluation soundstage, I have to pick my 2 channel setup. To fully evaluate a DAC I would say you need to do so using both headphones and 2 channels setups. Ultimately, you pick the DAC based on how it sounds for your environment. But, comparing the relative differences between DACs requires listening to detail that I would say you can only get through headphones. Mind you, I MUCH prefer listening to music through speakers. I use headphones for pleasure listening only when using my speakers interferes with something my wife is doing. But I do a lot of comparing of equipment with headphones.

 

I'm not sure why it has to devolve to a discussion of the value of evaluating performance on speakers vs headphones in the first place. Generally speaking, a good DAC will sound good with both speakers and headphones. The unique aspects of any system may synergize with a particular DAC more than another, but bad DACs don't hold up on any relatively neutral and resolving system, regardless of the type.

This hobby more than most is subjective, and costly. If folks want to spend their hard earned money on something that is good to their ears, that's their prerogative. We should all be appreciative of folks like Torq who help avoid the real turds, but at the end of the day your own ears and musical enjoyment are the only thing that really matters.

 

Agreed. Especially those accustomed to the spatial queues that two channel typically offers often find the headstage inferior at first. It's a different way to listen, but once you adapt there are some recordings that I actually find more enjoyable on headphones.

 

I'm just wondering is there any other reason for studio people to use interfaces like AVID HD I/O over something like a Yggdrasil other than more
inputs/outputs/clock stuff? I see these mastering quality interfaces are extremely expensive but they still use off the shelf DAC chips.
Are they still any good in comparison sound wise?

 

Probably for the same reason most audiophiles don't use pro DACs in their homes. Different products for different applications. The Yggdrasil is not nearly tonally flat enough to work with in a studio, is a PITA because it must be left on or take days to warm up and lacks the industry standard features to interface with other studio gear. Who would put it in their studio?

You can't mix on that. At least that's what @Psalmanazar would say if he wasn't banned.

 

I figure much depends upon what the studio is being used for.
Yeah a 'standard' recording studio would probably not want to use a Yggdrasil, but I have heard that some actually do use the Yggdrasil as a diagnostic tool.

And there are other specialty purpose studios where the Yggdrasil is being used for its strengths due to its resolving power.

It would seem that using the right tool for the job at hand is the name of this game.

JJ

 

I actually use my headphones as a measuring tool to "tune" my stereo system. Particularly bass balance, as that is where most speakers have issues, because of placement. Understanding room acoustic and speaker interaction I have a found a lot more complex than just popping a headphone on my head. If a dac sounds poor with headphones I doubt it will be totally different on a speakers set.

The DAC chip is a very small part of the cost involved in the pro-field.
Support/updates/software is where its at. For example ESI Juli@ has been introduced in 2004 and still being sold today, How many consumer DACs from 2004 are still available new?
I have noticed while they do use of the shelve DAC chips, the better ones do use FPGA filters too, instead of ready filters/DSP chips. Sound- wise I do not know.

 

Dac that sounds great with speakers is automatically great with headphones, crappy staging dac is annoying as hell with headphones, but tolerable with speakers (hung-lo sigma delta). I think assessing dac with speakers is better bet, like nobody in pro world is mastering with headphones (bad idea).

 

Border Patrol DAC

http://www.borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm

I bought one.

This is a 1543 based R2R DAC with valve rectified power supply.

There is an on/off switch on the rear with a button on the front to turn the valve rectifier on/off between listening sessions. Very neat little box.

Having had the Border Patrol DAC running constantly for three days what I think is ......bl**dy hell, buy this ASAP.

This is a stone bonker BARGAIN. I don't mean, 'this will challenge things up to twice its price', I mean, 'it is as good as anything I have heard'.

I have to confess there are a lot of DACs I have not heard, so I will try and paint an aural picture:

I have had a number of wow moments, as in ‘they are in the room’; these have been with acoustic and jazz; but there are plenty of hair raising moments with rock, pop & classical music.

I just listened to Waterloo Sunset streamed from Quboz, it is the BEST I have ever heard it. Not only open but also the delivery of dynamics in the song towards the end, that I had never noticed before. Also some added reverb in the last few stanzas, all laid out very clearly – as the different voices join the fray.

I played Wagner’s ‘Entry of the Gods into Valhalla’. This has a crashing strike at the opening. Through all the other DACs I have tried it has been there, but not THERE. With the BP I knew it was coming, but still jumped.

Beginning of Roger Waters The Wall Live from Quboz. Scale and power.

The areas where the Yggdrasil may have it slightly over the BP are imaging and bass transparency, but the BP is opening up all the time. The BP counters this by being more extended in the bass and high frequencies, and the high frequencies are simply superb. Additionally the BP has a well judged amount of timbre, not as much as the Lampizator, which I loved but may have been a tad over-egging the pudding.

I have bought the version with the enhanced PS. I did not bother with the USB input as my feeling is that this is an area that is advancing all the time, and in due course i will just replace my Singxer F1.

Really, this thing must be heard to be believed.

Downside?

9624 maximum.
No DSD.

Neither of these will bother me.

M

 

Usb/spdif only?

 

Sounds like a lot of hyperbole to me. I tend to not believe "reviews" like this. It reads more like ad copy....

 

Seems strange to use a tube for the rectifier (AC wave to DC wave stage of a power-supply; the DC still needs to be smoothed out) in a DAC. Looks cool but I don't get why other than looks? There are some reasons to do so in a guitar amp, but they are going for preferred distortion.

 

Winders,

Not sure what to say to that. I have never bought any Border Patrol before and have no connections with them. As much as I enjoyed the Yggdrasil, and I did, there were aspects of the Lampizator that I preferred. The Border Patrol manages to combine the two, and at a reduced price ....as long as you can live with the 9624 capped input.

Obviously in my system & YMMV.

gbeast,

You can buy USB &/or SPDIF. I didn't bother with the extra cost of the USB as I feel that it is a technology that appears to be changing continually. I did get the uprated power supply.

Darren,

No idea. But Border Patrol do have an excellent reputation for power supplies. I did ask Gary whether it was worth tube rolling. His view was that the differences would be subtle, but he sent me a couple of links to potential candidates. Frankly I won't bother.

I cannot believe how good Quboz is sounding through this thing.

M