Lynx PCIe AES interfaces: AES16 and E22

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. SSL

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    When I use WASAPI with foobar, it functions in exclusive mode. No other audio channels are audible.
     
  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    See this stuff:

    http://mark-dot-net.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-up-with-wasapi.html

    About WASAPI:

    "Grouping audio streams. In Vista, you can group together all audio streams out of a single application and control their volume separately. In other words, a per-application volume control. This is a bit more involved than might be at first thought, because some applications such as IE host all kinds of processes and plugins that all play sound in their own way."

    So it seems to imply things are getting mixed in. At least in some modes.
     
  3. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Possible. Probably it depends on the player and the player settings. And the player version (i.e. the release has no bugs and stuff)

    EDIT: According to Hydrogenaudio, one may need to check if the soundcard is compatible to get the exclusive mode going, but not sure: https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,72714.0.html
    And may need to put in some plugs-ins and do some elbow grease, perhaps depending on the release and OS. And driver.
     
  4. SSL

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    That suggests grouping streams from a single application, not an arbitrary number of different ones.

    Not "possible", lol. I can tell if other sounds are playing. Note that it is up to the application to open an exclusive stream. A stream with any mixing is not bitperfect by definition.
     
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    That's not my read on what they are saying. It seems WASAPI affords more control of the audio streams, which might be a variety of applications, but I don't think that means the parameters are always such that one application consumes the resource exclusively all the time. May need to be configured that way by any of the applications driver.

    ASIO I think does that, and then again, I think some ASIO drivers are really not doing what they are supposed to all the time, but don't quote me on that. Furthermore, note the post in Hydrogenaudio where the dude is complaining that system sounds are making it through.

    I do too. I will check it out when I get home through my 2i2. I recall hearing OS sounds and stuff, but possible I'm misremembering. Possible my Foobar needs some elbow grease.

    And yes, that's my point. If for some reason the application is not running exclusive (due to configuration or device support or unicorns), then bit perfect awesome sauce ain't gonna happen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  6. Garns

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    This is partly a system anti-synergy sort of situation, I have a neutral DAC and a pair of monitors flat to 20khz. I can dial the treble down with room correction switches on the monitors but it is bad for resolution. I could change Yggdrasil or my monitors but I really like them both and it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So I have learnt to live with the fact that any nasty shit in the treble is going to get spotlit, and am prepared to work a bit to sort things out. This speaker setup is way more finicky about treble than, for example, the HD800s through a Jotunheim.

    My problems were not just with 6khz. Also the top octave was bad with abnormal amounts of sibilance. Anything with a harmonica was unlistenable. The Smiths sounded like V/VM had gone at them with a bit crusher. I know ground loops are supposed to be 50/60hz hum, and I know that AES is transformer balanced, but nonetheless the results are as they are. Disconnecting pin1 on the AES cable into Yggdrasil; and also on the XLRs between Yggdrasil and my (transformer balanced) monitor ins has fixed up the treble so that I can actually listen to it. Quantity is the same, it's just much smoother and less distorted. Mind you, my system is super sensitive to all sorts of shit. If I don't turn my PC display off at the socket while listening then the treble gets more distorted.

    I have a hunch that part of the problem is that Yggdrasil output stage is not quite beefy enough. I could dump the Yggdrasil, or get a preamp as unity gain buffer, but I'd rather sit it out until a mk 2 output board comes along.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  7. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    What monitors and what was your DAC/source prior to Yggdrasil? Just curious. On some of these brittle or forward transducers, violins, tv static guitars, and harpsichords make me want to kill myself more than the percussion or glare-filled Sabres.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  8. Garns

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    Monitors are K+H O300D. I wouldn't call them brittle or forward, they just fail to roll off. Prior to Yggdrasil I had a Gungnir Multibit and before that a Lavry DA10. The Gungnir Multibit was warmer but still had a bit of digititus over SPDIF. The Lavry as I recall sounded good but I wasn't an insane audio obsessive when I owned that, I just listened to it and enjoyed it.
     
  9. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Maybe you're hearing the effects of your room causing a peak in certain frequencies that in turn amplify distortition that should normally not be so noticeable. Just a theory but there are so many variables when listening to speakers.
     
  10. Garns

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    Well, I'm reporting in good faith that I hear a difference. It doesn't seem implausible to me. The card firmware and the drivers together are controlling an embedded system which is tasked with producing as jitter-free a signal as possible. The player fills the buffers, the card drivers and firmware have to empty them and send them out as AES. Small changes in the way this is done could affect the stability of the clock signal. WASAPI wouldn't have existed when cards like the Lynx or RME launched, so the ASIO drivers would be the original ones and more mature.

    I had a similar experience with an iBasso DX90, using it as an SPDIF source for a Chord Mojo. The open-source Rockbox firmware sounded like total shit compared to the stock firmware, super digititus with ultra-scratchy and unpleasant treble. Presumably because of differences in the way they handle the very limited embedded system which comprises the DAP.

    Different audio players on a PC, I have never heard a difference. That doesn't surprise me as there is no low-level hardware programming involved. But I gave it a quick go anyway because why not?

    I agree, my room is a piece of shit, I can retune it significantly by opening and closing doors and windows :)
    Nonetheless, if it highlights some bit of distortion that is normally not noticeable, then it isn't creating that distortion out of nowhere, it's just making it more apparent. In some sense, this is better than not being aware that it was there in the first place. I thought my headphone setup sounded pretty fine already but being forced to deal with these issues at the speaker level has made the headphone setup more betterer as a result.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  11. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Haha yeah sounds like a fun room to deal with. Maybe we should have a big thread with tips and tricks for room correction and treatment, with an increased focus on 2 channel stuff it doesn't seem out of place.

    About your distortion problem i wouldn't be suprised if it's a combination of things. Have you tried playing with eq? I know this won't fix your distortion but if your room sounds more flat it might be easier to hone in on whatever might be causing it. Like dimmers, a nasty smps etc
     
  12. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    AES ground pin shenanigans falls under the Nervosa bucket. I can't advocate for that kind of thing.

    50 or 60 Hz fundamental is correct for ground loop noise but don't forget that tons of noise is generally present in harmonics, the degree of which depends on the severity of the issue.

    With regard to tape hiss, it varies depending on recording and mastering decisions but I typically find it centralized around 4kHz but it can range between 2-6kHz.
     
  13. Garns

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    Well it's system dependent. If you heard the effect in my system you would not call it nervosa. I literally did not listen to my speakers for a few months until I found a way to fix the distortion, and in my case lifting ground pins was that fix. Now the treble is way smoother and I can happily listen to them. It's not a subtle difference.

    Well, the problem is now fixed! At this point it is still slightly bright for my tastes, and I might try to EQ it down slightly if I can find an EQ which is transparent enough.
     
  14. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    @Garns, just to be clear, Are you hearing a tone issue, or a noise issue?
     
  15. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Good to hear! Equilibrium is very transparent when setup properly and allowing it to hog the cpu a bit. I'm using it on my HD800SD's to great effect.
     
  16. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Oh, and FR isn't an issue with Yggdrasil in my experience. Some stuff gets a crazy microscope on it across the FR spectrum in my experience. The only thing I'd change for Yggdrasil 2 would be to adjust dithering to remove the last bit of haze and possibly implement Freya's output stage since it's phenomenal. Otherwise, I'd use other techniques to color the sound it I was unhappy.
     
  17. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    The deal is that I was under the impression that there was some kind of a noise issue. Sort of like a tape hiss deal, but higher in frequency or something like that. But now I'm not sure what the issue is.

    If somehow curd is getting through the ground pin and we are dealing with clearly audible noise, maybe there is something there. But if things sound brighter or something with the AES ground pin, and not so with out, then things are indeed a bit counter-intuitive to me.
     
  18. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    We need to diagnose more. I'm guessing correlation without causation.
     
  19. Garns

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    No noise, no hum, everything is dead silent. Key problem was that the leading edges of transients in the treble were harsh and crispy. Eg, tracks with strummed acoustic guitar had unnaturally prominent plectrum noise.

    Quite possible, I don't know what the mechanism could be here. But practically speaking, if I can make changes which are correlated with things sounding better, then I am not too fussed about the causation.
     
  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    It's an erroneous presentation of multiple tape hiss noisefloors probably caused by whatever causes the weird Yggdrasil row 3 but in your face at the same time like in front at a bar show staging. The Gungnir Multibit doesn't do this and has a more normal staging.
     

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