Schiit (MultiBit) Bifrost

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by FlySweep, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. JewBear

    JewBear Almost "Made"

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    Pretty much this definition but I find in particular the bass seems thick.
     
  2. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    I think it's important to understand that this sort of description, syrupy / warm, is not a frequency response description in the context of DACs. They measure flat. It's more subtle than that. I notice something full bodied and warm with Bifrost Multibit, and I currently pair this with the Valhalla 2 tube amp. This might seem like a gooey combo, but to my ears, regardless of ideal pairing, this beats the pants off anything lower on the price bracket.
     
  3. JewBear

    JewBear Almost "Made"

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    Yes, definitely full bodies and warm. Maybe a touch too much for my ears BUT, I most likely am just used to the Modi bright, lean signature. I'm sure in a bit of time I'll try the Modi again and find it lean.
     
  4. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    Usually, the term "syrupy" when referring to audio means "Excessively sweet and rich, like maple syrup." I thought by what I have read that the Bifrost Multibit was warm.
     
  5. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    man you guys post faster than me! With the Bifrost Multibit being regarded as warm -it might be an excellent DAC for the HD800's. Anyone here listen to the Bifrost Multibit with the HD800's? If someone has and it is in a post, then I apologize, I'll run back through the thread again and see.
     
  6. SKiring

    SKiring Friend

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    Moi! I'm using Bifrost Multibit > HDVA600 > HD800 with a hybrid Anax mod (open cell foam 1.0 cut out + rug liner). Subjectively speaking it's truly a dream pairing, it adds a certain musicality to the HD800, while adding more details on pretty much anything. It has added a certain natural tonal balance, the smoothness of the HDVA600 and the articulation, details of the Bifrost Multibit really works well with the HD800. Probably before the end of the week my HD650 will arrive so I can test that on this chain as well.

    If I read that correctly you're using a Val2? I can't think of a reason why this would not be exceptional with the Bifrost Multibit, considering my previous auditions with it. Hell I'm considering adding a Val2 just for some fun tube rolling and get the BW (selling the HDVA600).
     
  7. JewBear

    JewBear Almost "Made"

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    I just remembered what Jason wrote about the Bifrost Multibit's DAC having a current output rather than a voltage output. I am wondering if the current output and the voltage converter are responsible for the Bifrost Multibit's very warm sound. I wonder if a fully discrete I/V stage would have resulted in Schiit's more typical sound signature.
     
  8. GoldfishX

    GoldfishX Facebook Friend

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    Yeah, I can picture syrupy with, say, a tube amp or a vintage amp...but a DAC, not so much. Bifrost Multibit arrives today, so I shall see. My stand-in DAC is a Dac-It (ES9023), which is fast and accurate (digital?) so I would expect to hear an immediate difference.

    Again though, some days I get to listen to headphones all day at work, so less-fatiging is a good trait for me.
     
  9. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    I think Skiring hits it on the head. I
    heard Senn 800s at RMAF with Bifrost Multibit. Very nice indeed.
     
  10. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    thanks bixby!
     
  11. GoldfishX

    GoldfishX Facebook Friend

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    Very first impression (immediately after taking out of the box)...Smooth, yet detailed, no glare, toe-tappingly fun, really am noticing the soundstaging abilities of the HD800 more in the past 45 minutes than I have over the past 2+ years. My Ace of Base tracks have that familiar, head-bobbing mid-bass hump that the tracks usually have, but it goes away when it switches to Zeppelin (these REALLY open up, I usually do not like these tracks on headphones). This is probably the most "hi-fi" my setup has ever sounded. This is with no warm-up or burn-in.

    This...might not be going in the office rig...yet...

    Good show, Schiit
     
  12. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    I think it is more the usb circuit than the dac out. Changed from pretty heavy bass to quite nice with two USB/ spdif bridges I have been listening with the Bifrost Multibit.

    Also according to Jason's posts, there is not space for a discrete iv stage just a simple amp stage. And the discrete stage used in the upper Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil is more a buffer. Course all of this is beyond my pay grade, so I am just the parrot, arg!
     
  13. JewBear

    JewBear Almost "Made"

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    You mean I need to buy a Wyrd too. :eek:
     
  14. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    I first used the Wyrd with the Uberfrost. Noticed a change then (for the better). After the upgrade to the Bifrost Multibit, the Wyrd stays.
     
  15. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Oops , there it is, I have gone and made it muddy. NO, you do not need a Wyrd. IMHO, that would make it just a bit better or not.

    What I am talking about is the input to the dac. You have three choices on the Bifrost Multibit: USB, Optical, or coax Spdif.

    I am talking about Coax spdif being more to my liking than USB. And to utilize the coax connection on a Bifrost Multibit from my computers, I use a USB to spdif bridge or converter. I have two at the moment, but have experienced about 5 over the years. Right now a Halide bridge and the Bryston Buc-1 are in the house and do better (my opinion, only) than USB direct. Yes, it adds considerably to the cost, but the Bifrost Multibit is responding well and with these combos can outperform may similar priced dacs running USB direct.

    Much more experimentation will follow, but I am delighted so far with the results.
     
  16. GoldfishX

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    So I went against my instinct and moved the Bifrost Multibit into my office rig (Lyr 1 w/Mad Dogs, using a DX50 lineout as a source...now using X2 tablet as a source, feeding Bifrost Multibit via USB).

    The first hour, the image was very forward and pretty harsh, particularly in the treble. There was still the level of detail and 3Dness I experienced with my other setup, but the edges were far more blurred. Now the midrange has scooched back a bit, there is more air between the instruments and that treble grain is slowly receding. Everything sounds much more like "music" than the DX50. By the time quitting time rolled around, I had a hard time taking the headphones off and got into that nice "one more song" frame of mind. And I did check a number of the same songs that I played in the morning...The treble just felt more controlled later on.

    I expect to be spending a LOT of time at the office, so I will see if anything else changes over the next month or so. I will say, in both setups, I notice drums a lot more in the songs I play. It feels like these are usually something that gets lost in any DS Dac I've used. It's a really nice touch.

    Also note, I was using a fresh set of PYST cables, so they might have played a factor.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  17. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Got the Bifrost multibit loaner in yesterday. Spent a bit of time then listening and more today after letting it warm up. I didn't notice any real sonic changes during that time frame.

    The first thing I want to say is that this is one of the most exciting DACs I've ever heard. By that, I mean it just sounds so damn good for such a relatively low price. I'm trying to think if I've heard a DAC offer such a good enjoyment for the price ratio (and new, so I don't have to worry if it's vintage and going to crap out on me), and the Bifrost multibit might top my list.

    The second thing I want to say is that the Bifrost multibit sounds to me like a modernized version of the vintage, multibit 16-bit chips from decades ago, specifically the TDA1541A. To me, that's a very, very good thing. Many of you probably know I lean towards a warmer, lusher, smoother type of DAC, along with the fact I tend to prefer non-oversampling DACs for the same reason many of you don't prefer them. :) My main DAC is the Audial Model S Mk2, SPDIF version, which is a wonderful, non-oversampled, modern implementation of the TDA1541A chip.

    Immediately, the tone and body stuck out to me on the Bifrost multibit. It just has this slightly sweet, slightly lush, ever so slightly warm character to it that, as I said, reminds me of something more in line with the TDA1541A. To me, it's an almost perfect sort of tone. It also has plenty of body to spare, never sounding lean, and yet without sounding bloated or thick. It's like a clean, right sort of body and thickness. (Side note: I hear this as a near perfect tone, and me calling it slightly warm or lush is more relative to other DACs AND how I gather most perceive it...to be honest, DACs that don't closely match the Bifrost multibit tone don't sound as real or right to me, so keep that in mind if your tastes differ.)

    Bass slam and dynamics seem like they might be a tiny hair shy of the explosive nature you might get out of some other, generally pricier, multibit DACs. It still hits hard and is very engaging, though, and any lacking here is slight enough one could likely fool themselves during a blind test (i.e. realm of possible placebo). On the upside, the background seems rather black, which helps mitigate any possible missing dynamics or slam, if anything is missing at all, that is.

    Another thing I love about this DAC is that it has a very clean, liquid sound to it. By clean, I do not mean sterile or dry. I mean there's little to no grain, artificial sharpness, glare, rough nature, digititus, and so on. It doesn't sound fake and artificial nor, at the other extreme, like a pig covered in vaseline and lipstick.

    Soundstage and imaging seem solid to me. Any air, resonance, reverb, mixing effects, etc. are all displayed properly relative to and across both channels. Honestly, I might actually prefer the 4X oversampling on the Bifrost multibit over the 8X on the Yggdrasil, bigger and fancier numbers be damned! I've said it multiple times that something about oversampling tends to widen the stage and help differentiate layers at the expense of making every individual element sound more like a two-dimensional representation of a three-dimensional object. Whatever that means. Whenever I played around with DACs that had 2X, 4X, and 8X oversampling modes, 4X was about as high as I found myself wanting to go with 2X being my preference. 2X OS to me is sort of a like a best-of-both-worlds when I think about what I like and dislike with non-oversampling and oversampling. (I might actually ditch non-oversampling if I could get something like a Yggdrasil with 2X OS filter.)

    Anyway, I think the 4X oversampling mode helps mitigate this two-dimensional trait I mentioned. When I listen to staging, imaging, layering, and how three-dimensional objects sound, the Bifrost multibit sounds really damn good. It might lose out on some of the precision or focus of the Yggdrasil, but I really don't care given what I hear as a possible positive trade off (depending on one's tastes). Again, I'm sure the reasons I might prefer the 4X oversampling are the exact reasons most others wouldn't prefer it over 8X oversampling.

    Now, as for resolving power and detail retrieval, honestly, I think the Bifrost multibit does a pretty damn good job. I really don't hear it giving much up. It seemed to pull out the small details or ambient cues I normally listen for in my test tracks. Now, would the Yggdrasil make those more present and sound more focused, especially during complex material? Probably. I don't have a Yggdrasil to A-B against, though. Besides, I find that once I get to about the resolution of the Bifrost multibit, I stop caring about extra details, extra resolving power, blah blah blah. Once I get the sort of performance at this level, every other quality takes precedence, with tone and liquidity being on the top of the list.

    Funny thing about this area of performance, I went in expecting something, well, not great after seeing atomicbob's -90dB 1KHz and gain linearity tests for the Bifrost multibit. I know the DAC chip itself is great on paper, but his measurements had me discouraged. I noticed the same thing in my own measurements (upcoming), and, yet...not really hearing anything wrong subjectively. Just goes to show that measurements aren't everything, right?

    Now, as for a direct comparison against the Model S (16-bit vs. 16-bit, baby!), well, if it weren't for the fact I still tend to prefer a non-oversampled sound, I'd feel pretty damn stupid spending what I did on the Model S with the Bifrost multibit available. That's the honest truth. They share a lot of similar traits, most notably in their tone and overall pleasing, yet engaging, sound. Fact of the matter is that it's hard to find a non-oversampled DAC that sounds decent without paying out the ass, so that's what I get for preferring non-oversampling (and because of that, still don't regret my purchase, as I love the Model S).

    The Bifrost multibit has that typical cleaner, more focused sound compared to the Model S. Pretty common for oversampling vs non-oversampling. The Model S gives vocals that thicker quality with a greater sense of chest resonance - part of the reason I like non-oversampled, as it makes vocals sound more real to me and less like good recordings, whether that's coloration or not. Both are similarly resolving when you get passed the cleaner, more focused nature of the Bifrost multibit. The Bifrost multibit has a slightly blacker background and slightly less smokey character that I attribute to its chip's lower noise performance and perhaps the output transformers I have in the Model S as well. Both are similarly liquid with the Model S having the sort of smoother, "moar analog," top-end that is common on non-oversampling DACs. This trait would drive more individuals towards the Bifrost multibit, where as for me, it's key for long-term listening sessions due the unexplainable fatigue oversampling gives me the more I listen and no matter what else I do or try with my chain. Finally, Model S might be a bit more dynamic and might have more slam. Key word might.

    However, when you load up 88.2 or 96KHz sampling rate music on both devices, they really sound pretty damn close. Higher sampling rate music gives the Model S, and nearly any other non-oversampling DAC, a more focused, less treble rolled sound. Model S might be a bit more dynamic, and Bifrost multibit might have a blacker background. Beyond that, you really start splitting hairs despite there still being a hint of smoother treble on the Model S (again, the kind that matters for me long term).

    Long story short, the Bifrost multibit is a wonderful accomplishment when the price point is considered. For those that have yet to go entirely batshit crazy and into the deep end with this hobby, buy the Bifrost multibit and stop there! Just stop! And before you say, "But...", NO! BAD! Just buy it, plug your ears from all other outside noise and advice, and stay happy. Don't worry about the 16-bit nature, pretend DSD doesn't exist, and just buy the Bifrost multibit. Keep it and enjoy it. The end. Now go worry about amps and headphones with only having spent a few hundred bucks on an excellent DAC.

    My only complaint is that sometimes the Bifrost multibit really wigs out when you play music with a different sampling rate. Just push the front button until it goes back to your input of choice, and it should be resolved. You'll know it if you hear it. Sounds like the music was fed through an 8-bit, LSD music generator. Not a big deal. Oh, and I guess some are having issues with the Bifrost multibit USB input and Windows, but I only tried it with the CI Audio Transient MkII as an SPDIF converter.
     
  18. SKiring

    SKiring Friend

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    Good stuff @Hands! Have you tried 192KHz or 176.4KHz specifically in the direct comparison, NOS vs. NOS would be very interesting (unless that's what you mean with any higher sampling rates).
     
  19. GoldfishX

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    I think at the very least, Bifrost Multibit is going to be an important benchmark for other DAC's to beat. Especially at that price point and especially because of how noticeable the change is, compared to a regular DS Dac.

    Frankly, I don't think a lot of others are up to the task.
     
  20. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I'll have to see if I can find an upsampling filter I really like. Played around with some for a while but either didn't care for them after a while or found the software too much of a PITA to use.
     

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