the one where Campfire and LH Labs clear the air a bit

not sure if you are aware, but your "DOA" collab with LH, Asteria, is still doing the rounds in the Portfes and the reps are still claiming that it's going into production "soon".

 

I'd want to know if my channel was misrepresenting my brand.

 

Hey All,

Just to be very clear regarding LH Labs "Asteria"

I was recently told by my Japanese distributor that LH Labs was still showing this IEM at the Tokyo e-earphone show in Japan as recently as this month (December 2017) We are sad and disappointed to hear Larry Ho is continuing to show a prototype product that exclusively contains our IP and shell design. We did not authorize him to show or use this prototype product. He was suppose to return the one concept model we provided, that he now has apparently been promoting as his own.

We have nothing to do with the LH Labs earphone project and have no affiliation, communication, agreement or coordination with Mr. Ho. If LH Labs releases a IEM it will not be from Campfire Audio and we hope it will not contain any elements of Campfire Audio IP. Especially elements of design or IP from the earphone prototype that was provided that has not yet been returned.

We very much hope that LH Labs does not show this IEM again as it was never authorized to be shown or be used for the profit or benefit of LH Labs.

We are very sad to see this develop in the direction that it apparently has.

Ken

 

Wow that is potentially massively fucked up and I hope your hard work and IP isn't violated by LH Labs in any way shape or form. They somehow have never escaped from the cycle of demonstrating promise and then massively crapping the bed. Seriously hope things end well and no harm comes to you guys beyond whatever went into the collab to begin with.

 

I have a pretty poor opinion of LH after personal experiences with QC and bad CS, but this is next level. I hope Larry does the right thing.

In fact the Campfire/LH collaboration always confused me. It’s like that really awesome childhood female friend that ends up marrying a total arsehole.

 

LH should team up with Heir Audio...

Sorry to hear about this, @KenBall, you can be sure we won't be buying any LH iem based on your work.

 

He hasn't been online for quite a while, but @LarryHo is a member.

 

@zerodeefex should be able to get a message through to them.

 

@KenBall This is a travesty. Wtf is going on up there at LHL? Hopefully your fears won't be realized.

 

@LarryHo WTF are you doing over there, screwing fellow small upstart audio gear manufacturer? Do you have no shame?

 

To be fair, I don't think @LHCommSquad knew anything about this. So let's not start scorching earth where it doesn't need it.

You do know that @LHCommSquad is different from @LarryHo.

 

Apologies. I thought @LHCommSquad is Larry Ho himself. Edited

 

Hi all,


Here is the whole background of this co-brand earbud. In 2017 Feb, Campfire and LH Labs had a contract that LH Labs will develop a product for Campfire. We are still respecting the original agreement so this product won't be mentioned in any details. In order to compensate 80% of the development cost (NRE) for us, and in good faith, we didn't want Campfire to spend too much cash in up front. Both parties agreed to use another co-branded earbud for the major portion of that product's NRE. And we will work together on both end. That is how and where this co-branded earbud came from.

We put in a lot of engineering effort to design the schematics and PCB for that product and Campfire also provided us few samples of this co-branded earbud. Emails and communications were good and smooth on both ends. We expected nothing but a win-win relationship.

In the early of Nov., our Japanese distributor did the first time branding introduction to Japan since we didn't have any Japan distributor or partner before. The major purpose was to launch the brand and show some good products we have which include Da Vinci DAC, Vi DAC, GO2A and GO2Pro and so on. This also included the pre-launch of this co-branded earbud. They are not selling any of our products or collect any money of that co-branded earbud in that show. The whole purpose is to make a good introduction of the whole product line.

At the last day of the Nov. 3-5 Japan audio show, after our Japan distributor already put a lot of effort on marketing. Ken Ball told me they decided to terminate the original product development project and also this co-branded earbud.

This was out of the dark and I'm super surprised and not clearly understanding the decision process. Regardless, since we didn't release any news or want to launch this co-branded earbud in any other countries besides Japan, the only thing left we want to do is the make sure our partner in Japan don't get into a very bad situation for this sudden one-sided decision.

During the past few weeks, we tried to use email to communicate about how to fix the situation in Japan. And we will continue to do so.

To be super clear, we don't have any intention to get involved with this co-branded earbud anymore with Campfire. Nor want to infrige any IP they have. This would be the best result. The only problem which now seems sadly beared on our side is how we could prevent the damage of our Japanese partner. There is no users or buyers paid any money yet but our partner already spent a lot of money and effort on it. We can not just simply said "Sorry, you got screwed".

Just to be super clear: we are not selling this unit. We are not bringing it to market. It is a dead product.

We will keep communicate with Japan and Campfire to find the best solution. And I think this statement will be also clarify if there is any confusion.

 

If you don’t intend to be involved with the co-branded earbud, why are you still showing it?

Your statement doesn’t clarify anything; in fact it sounds a lot like something my 9 year old would say to excuse keeping up a behavior that he’s been asked to stop. “Well I’m not really touching my sister anymore” as his hand hovers 1 inch from her...

 

I don't feel this forum is the place to hash this issue out anyway. @LarryHo contact @KenBall directly in a professional manner. Hopefully the two companies can jointly confirm when it's been resolved. I can't imagine it benefits either side to have this laundry airing on SBAF.

 

You have to understand it's a LHL thing to make promises and apologies on public forums so backers don't go and buy pitchforks. These guys can't help themselves.

On to Adromeda, I also still have my Cowon J3 somewhere which has around 1.5 ohm impedance. I will compare the ZX100 and the J3 to see how well they match and if impedance is everything.

 

I thought I was farting?

I am not a businessman so please enlighten me, Mr. Ho: What damage would it cause to your distributor, for taking out one product of the many in the show? It's not like the IEM is the only missing product -- there are Geek Wave, Geek Source, Geek HPA, Geek Vi Dac, etc. that are missing (BTW, how many millions worth of products are still unfulfilled at this point?)

Or you prefer them still launching it, even though they would not be able to eventually distribute it?

Interesting business practices.

 

Hey All,

I apologize for this spilling out all over a fine thread like this. We here at CFA want nothing more than to put this all behind us. It was a project that never matured or really came together, and clearly our (Campfire) thinking, values and strategic operations ended up bing significantly divergent from LH Labs. The premature promotion is where we decided to pass on the project. Larry is a amazing engineer and I wish him or LH Labs no ill will, its just a project that did not work out and our views were different. This is pretty common and nothing out of the ordinary in business.

So in response to others posting about it, and subsequent apparent continued promotion in Japan, I was kind of forced to respond to try and communicate the situation as not to have anyone let down. The last thing we here at Campfire want is to mislead or even give the perception of misleading anyone with regards to a product or future project. That is a very important thing for me, I dont want to create false expectations, so I wanted to communicate this. I am sorry and super bummed it did not materialize or work out.

Sorry for the ruckus guys.

Thank you,

Ken