Sennheiser HD660S Speculation

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Junki, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    OMG, don't give "reviewers" any ideas.
     
  2. briskly

    briskly Friend

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    Since when do you transform impulse response into distortion? Impulse response is the characterization of linear system response, and (complex) frequency response would be the Fourier dual of the impulse response.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  3. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Transients are still linear though. The transients depend on the initial conditions. In digital filters, it depends on the initial contents of the delay lines. On a network, it depends on the initial charge and magnetic fields stored in the caps and the inductors respectively at "time zero".

    Then you also have non-linear behavior which is usually noise and high order behavior (quadratic or higher order polynomial like) due to operating actives and passives outside their linear range.

    In Head-Fi it seems transients are speed, power, PRaT, presence, resolution, and so on, all in one. Or so it seems folks are going to learn.
     
  4. marcussmj

    marcussmj New

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    I think it looks great with the new paint job and the logo is a nice touch on the side.
     
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I definitively agree with this. Specially when compared to the HD600 paint job: Blue puke.
     
  6. marcussmj

    marcussmj New

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    Heh table top pattern was popular in the 90's :p
     
  7. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    I'm more confused now than before.

    What I'm saying is: the impulse response is the transient response of a system to an impulse. This is my understanding. If this is somehow incompatible with your definition, please let me know.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    An impulse response is a very specific construct which has mathematical implications. In the case of measurements used here, the impulse response is actually derived from recorded pseudo-random noise constructed to have certain characteristics or a sine sweep of specific length.

    Transient response or speed (along with qualifiers fast or slow), as I refer to them here, are subjective terms describing sound phenomena.

    There is actually no such thing as a fast or slow impulse response, at least an idealized impulse.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Here you go. This should make it more clear. Minor details were left out, but this is the gist of it.
    IMG_20171019_184302.jpg
     
  10. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    It is NOT my definition. The definition is formal and it is incompatible with your definition as far as I know.

    I actually googled and read the "Transient response" definition in wikipedia. That article is marred with issues and it's flat out wrong as far as I'm concerned. Read this for that definition instead:

    https://www.dsprelated.com/freebooks/filters/Transient_Response_Steady_State.html

    Believe me, this is not graduate level EE stuff. It's pretty basic. This shit actually goes back to differential equations.

    EDIT: I don't know if you are an EE, but as an EE I cannot express to you how wrong "the impulse response is the transient response of a system to an impulse" is. The impulse response includes information of BOTH transients and steady-state.

    EDIT 2: Again, we can go down the "subjective" lane and relax formalisms. But it's pretty damn confusing, for me at least, to see two very different terms being used to describe the same thing, in a very ambiguous way. Specially if we are talking impulse response in a signals and systems context.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    None of this discussion is necessary. The point is that HF randos should just stick to convention and use commonly used terms such as fast or slow to describe subjective sound phenomena rather than hijack technical terms with specific meanings and math implications such as impulse response to describe subjective phenomena.

    No audio guy says wow, that REL sub has such good impulse response or good energy time curve that it keeps up with the Maggies. They say, wow that's a fast sub or that sub can keep up (in terms of speed) with the panels.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  12. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Exactly. A lot less confusion.

    There are many ways to convey information. But mixing up terms is not helpful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  13. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    I just read the last, very long, review. I think I am going to be sick. How did they suddenly go from one pair in Rotterdam, to suddenly everywhere? Did they beam a pair over to Tyll?
     
  14. PacoTaco

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    When I was a lurker on Head-fi a long ass time ago, I was incredibly confused whenever they actually started throwing terms around. I was taking Electrical Engineering courses at the time for my SS/CE degree, and a lot of shit they spout out was just...oddly wrong. Misquotes of Nwavguy's stuff, using terms refering to specific property ranges of a frequency response chart incorrectly, ect ect.

    I eventually just stopped going there as much because...it was hard to tell what was "fact" (as far as subjectivity and objectivity was concerned) and what was just plain bullshit. I bought a Burson Soloist because it was so popular, but if you've seen my impressions of it, you'd know that was a huge mistake on my part. There's a couple people on the headphones subreddit that do the same thing, but peer review articles. This guy tied together three loosely correlating peer reviewed articles/studies (two of which were behind a paywall) to prove that a certain IEM (I think the IE-80) could be EQ'd to have the same exact sound and properties of a HD800.

    Edit: Sorry, prematurely clicked save changes.
     
  15. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Clearly all those reviews are troll jobs. One is even impersonating a member here and he said it wasn't him in this very thread.
     
  16. briskly

    briskly Friend

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    Impulse response is the convolution of the system with the Dirac Delta. In the frequency domain, the Dirac delta is just the identity. As such, signal w/ flat response and linear phase can be used to compute the impulse response. These hinge on the linearity and time-invariance of the system.

    I had missed my intended quote.
    But wouldn't that be out of the general bounds of transient analysis?

    This Head-fi stuff is technobabble, beating readers over the head with concepts and jargon beyond what they might be expected to know. Well-founded ideas not required. Like the quantum mystics you see floating around, the science is beyond them.

    That sounds more like Nwav going on a self-appointed crusade no one asked for and no one else wanted.
     
  17. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Yes. Non-linear distortion is out of what is covered by transient analysis.

    You should experience the third harmonic distortion of the Focusrite 2i2 internal DAC. It pairs perfectly with the transient response of the Koss Portapros, giving a unique sense of space and dimension that is unmatched by even the most expensive linear time invariant systems in the market. The impulse response runs very fast and effortlessly. So fast in fact that only the most trained ears can catch the detailed nuance of the shot noise with it's unique Poisson distribution that only this combination can provide. It's all in the time domain characteristics of the full integrated system. Frequency response is obviosuly irrelevant since it is completely overtaken by the CSD smoothness and warm presentation. :confused:

    I cannot stop listening to this combination. The internal amplifier's initial conditions make the Laplace transform extend it's influence of the system's phasor analysis very deep. Even deeper and harder as one experiences the softness of the Koss headphones wavelet resolution. The cable connecting these two systems grants unfathomable levels of blackness hitting Boltzmann constant levels.

    (Read as reviewer just jizzed all over the keyboard.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  18. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    I must say this jizz really complements the slight edge of the resistance in my mechanical switches, I never knew there was so much potential hidden in this keyboard! What USB cable do you think would bring out the clickiness of my keystrokes?
     
  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Nobody makes black cables as satisfying as Monoprice. The sweet softness of their plastic shell and robustness of their internal metal wire should more than invigorate the delicate lips of any well defined personal computer's USB snatch. This should bring the clickness of your keyboard to exhilarating levels. Happy PC, happy keyboard.
     
  20. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    I see I still have much to learn before I can survive in head-fi territory. :bow:
     

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