U-turn Orbit “Theory”

https://uturnaudio.com/pages/introducing-orbit-theory?mc_cid=023c375b8b&mc_eid=d21f2733ad

Just popped up in my inbox. The basic u turn orbit was my first real TT, but i moved on and have been happy in the world of technics direct drive. Basically appears to be a redesigned orbit - magnesium single piece constructed tonearm, better motor, better belt and platter. $1000 is real money but it appears competitive with the rest of the stuff that’s out there.

 

I think everything will come down to how that arm sounds. Generally single piece arms tend to produce a clearer signal, unless of course they are made like shit.

 

Does look very good. Would like to know how it sounds.

 

For the same price can now get a Pro-ject debut pro which to me looks superior in almost every way to the new Orbit

to break it down:
platter: die-cast aluminum on the pro-ject vs acrylic block on the Orbit

I don't like the tone of acrylic platters at all, I find they sound pale, especially if the record is interfaced directly with them. most importantly, the Pro-ject is sub-platter driven while the Orbit has the belt going around the platter itself. the Pro-ject system is superior imo. One can also later upgrade the sub-platter to an aluminum one if desired.

arm: I would be inclined towards the Pro-ject arm because I am not a fan of undamped unipivots. The Orbit arm has no azimuth or VTA adjustment so you will not get the most out of any cartridge beyond entry-level stuff.

included cartridge: OEM modified 'Pick-it' 2M on the pro-ject vs 2M blue on the Orbit

the same thing, but it seems that some distribution regions of the Pro-ject get a Sumiko cartridge instead of the 2M Blue which I would greatly prefer.

motor: hard to say much because neither show the motor up close. the motor on the Pro-ject is in a suspended pod, on the Orbit it's bolted into the plinth. I think the suspended pod is better way to go.

speed control: the same mechanism on both, a quartz-controlled error correction. the Pro-ject has 78rpm but I don't think anyone will play 78s on it as the arm does not have a removable headshell. you would need a cartridge body which has easily swappable 78 stylii,

feet: aluminum and rubber on both. The pro-ject feet look more impressive. the Orbit feet kind of look like aliexpress specials.

plinth: MDF on the project vs. solid wood on the Orbit. win for Orbit

the Orbit is compelling because you get free US shipping and no question returns. sound quality will largely come down to the quality of the motor, main bearing and tonearm bearings, and I would definitely expect the Pro-ject to win in those departments. cool product though.

there are different schools of thought on this. it's complicated and depends on your cartridge. many cartridges will actually sound quite dull coupled into a rigid one-piece arm like a Rega. but you can introduce mechanical breaks using washers and wood, metal or felt spacers.

 

Agree about Pro-Ject offerings being compelling at $1k. That would also get you a Technics 1500C.

 

Seems so expensive... I don't know about these days but I got a cherry MK5 for $400 a few years ago.

 

Just curious. Why do you feel a sub platter drive is better?

 

Inertia and flywheel effect. the platters in both players probably weigh approximately the same. in this case, perimeter drive will offer better long-term speed stability (wow caused by belt stretch) and the sub platter drive will offer better short-term speed stability (flutter caused by motor variations, even when electronically regulated). This is due to the higher drive ratio in a sub platter system creating a flywheel effect in the lightweight platter, once it comes up to speed.

it should be noted that short-term speed instability is perceived as intermodulation distortion and destroys the fabric of music, whereas long-term instability is more of an annoyance.

In high-end turntables with heavy platters and big motors, belt stretch becomes more of an issue, sub-platter drive becomes less feasible, and perimeter drive is obviously favoured.

To add a bit of turntable history:

In general, I don't like turntables with heavy platters. the best LP reproduction I have heard has come from vintage tables with relatively light platters. Also in general, I think that high drive ratios are a good thing, mechanically speaking. The earliest turntables used extremely powerful, high RPM motors which required a large step-down only achievable through gears; not only to get the desired operational speed but also to minimize the effect of motor vibration on the rest of the system.

As we 'progressed' over the next decades, the role of gears was replaced idler wheels, then belts, and finally nothing at all (direct drive with a 1:1 drive ratio). My sonic preference also happens to be in that order.

Read more here: https://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.com/2021/05/a-brief-summary-of-turntable-drive.html

The progression from gears to wheels was largely due to economics. The progression from wheels to belts was due to the advent of counterweights in tonearm design, which due to the effect of 'dumbbell' resonance, are much more susceptible to picking up motor rumble. See the decision from Thorens to move from a belt/idler system (TD124) to a belt/sub-platter system (TD125) in the 1960s as counterweighted tonearms became the absolute norm.

 

Mild necro here. Did anyone ever end up with a U-Turn turntable of any kind, maybe an Orbit Theory? I am in the market and have put this one at the top of my list with an Ortofon Bronze cartridge. I like the idea of knob-switchable speed, sorbothane adjustable feet, pre-mounted Ortofon Bronze, USA "made", free ship, and included dust cover. Second preference is Technics SL-1500C, and third place seems to be Project Debut Pro. I'm hoping to find some bit of data that pushes me over the edge one way or another.

My Schiit Skoll shipped today, so next step is to commit to the turntable. This will be my first ever TT. I am looking for something near $1,000 to get me through a few years before I inevitably sink serious money into a Michell probably.

*EDIT* Ordered the Orbit Theory with Ortofon 2M Bronze today. I will report how it goes. A lot of people are online bitching about the lower end U-Turn turntables and I feel since there was a revision U-Turn might have corrected some of the grounding issues people were complaining about. I have not seen anyone making major complaints about the Theory. Wish me luck! Unless the thing simply does not work, I do not see why this table should not get me through until I buy a Michell Gyro or Orbe.

 

A couple pics and messy first impressions.

Vinyl is a massive pain in the ass and I probably should not have done this. ~$2K would have been better spent upgrading my Spring 3 KTE to a May, or maybe some actual power protection. /rant I don't see myself upgrading to something more expensive ever.

Packaging is good, delivery was a bit slow. I ordered a force gauge and brush and they put it inside the turntable box which I appreciate. Setup was pretty easy. It's very light weight. The felt mat is a disaster. It is a staticky nightmare. I just ordered a cork mat from Pro-ject. I read of some other users suggesting to get the UTurn cork mat and I regret not getting one from the beginning.

Most of my records are extremely dirty except two that I recently bought at Axpona which were cleaned. The 3 Sorbothane leveling feet are nice. This was a selling point for me. I have it pretty close to my speakers and I do not think there is any feedback or issue. I was worried this cheap furniture table would cause vibration problems but it seems fine so far.

The Schiit Skoll seems very bright. Maybe it's the Ortofon 2M Bronze? There's no "warmth" here at all. Something is breaking/settling in quickly. Things were not very detailed or separated at first but half way through the third record things began to really open up with greater detail, separation, and sound staging. My clean records (Stevie Ray Vaughan) have some sibilance where the "tss" sounds seem like they are distorting. It's more than just aggressive "tss." Not sure if this is inherent to the bad record, poor tracking, or something else. I tried both RCA and XLR outputs on the Skoll and found no major difference, but I will continue to explore that further. I did not try the bass filter with XLR.

 

No VTA on this Uturn. The setup recommendation from UTurn suggests setting the counterweight so the tonearm floats level. I did this. The tracking force measured a bit low, so I adjusted it for 1.53g where they suggest 1.5 grams. 1.53g was all I could muster before I got ADHD and just had to start using the thing.

The felt mat is 1/8" and I ordered a 3mm cork mat. I think this should be close enough? I've read of some people trying to change to 2 or 1mm thick mats but there does not seem to be a consensus of what is "correct."

 

I also noticed that the record with the sibilance issue is old and thin. Maybe 140g? I put on a modern, brand new record that is much more substantial and obviously thicker. It has silly coloring in it so maybe the new one is 220g? The new, thicker one sounds great with no issues. So I might need to have some varying mat thicknesses for some of these older records. Others are indicating something similar.

 

Vinyl can seem like a huge pain in the ass, but once you get it dialed in it's really not. Stick with it until you know it's set up well, and you won't have to do anything but flip or change records and enjoy for a long time. Just gotta get over the setup hump.

 

Just giving an update on my turntable I got from U-Turn for additional datapoints for anyone interested and stumbles on this thread. I got the U-Turn Special with Ortofon Red and built-in Phono. This is my first TT ever, and wanted to get something that seemed to be relatively good quality and good sounding, while being simple to use.

I will say that this was an overall really good experience for me. I got the TT in within a week, and put it together without much problem. Got it up and running within about 5 minutes. Upon first usage, I noticed that there was a bit of static, and as others have mentioned, the felt mat that comes standard is pretty ass. I updated it to the cork mat and learned some tricks on removing static before spinning an LP and its pretty quiet now (within my tolerance, some slight pop and crackles but think that is probably normal on all tt... maybe not idk).

Overall I have to say I am impressed. People talk about cheaper tt being shitty and doesn't compare to digital. I can't really comment on that. I have a Yggdrasil MiB but i am not interested in doing any comparisons. Just from my listening, I am really enjoying it. It sounds good to me (I was worried about the built in phono pre, but tbh I think it sounds pretty good). I am sure that I can upgrade my TT, upgrade my cart (I got the Ortofon Blue on the way, since people seem to say its a good upgrade over the red and its an easy swap), and upgrade my phono pre to get a much better sound, but tbh I feel no desire to atm in terms of my musical enjoyment. I put on a record and just enjoy it, and to my ears its not a step down from the Yggdrasil, maybe if I really try to look it will fall behind in detail, but I am enjoying it just as much/even more than digital. I am trying to keep my upgradtitus in check and just enjoy the setup, and that is what I am doing so far.

Guess I might have gotten lucky, but just wanted to put out this message that U-Turn was a simple easy to set up solution for me and getting into vinyl. I will also say I have been enjoying vinyl as I am listening to albums all the way through and while I try to do this on digital, I can't seem to ever get into an album and always am looking to change it/seems to take forever to get through an album. Maybe it's cause I have to stand up through the album to flip/change LP, but I am able to really get deeper into the music.

Anyways, that's enough of my rambling, back to your regular scheduled programming.

 

@dncnexus What else have you done to remove static? I'm still having some static problems and it's making me sad.

ANYONE reading this who expects to get a U-Turn turntable, buy their cork mat when you buy the turntable!! As indicated above, the felt mat is extreme ass and creates static with the energy of a thousand suns. I read this same advice elsewhere but neglected to buy the cork mat from U-Turn. I got a Pro-Ject cork mat from Amazon which is working fine, but it would have been cheaper to just buy it when ordering the U-Turn TT.

If U-Turn is reading this, throw your entire stock of felt mats into the trash and just include a cork mat with all of your turntables. See above where we have said the felt mat is ass.

 

The main thing I am doing is using a anti-static brush. I do about 20 small strokes/flicks across the whole record (in the direction to go with the grooves), then spin it and do a final brush as it spins. This has eliminated most of the static issues I have faced, leaving only what I assume is a normal amount for vinyl.

If anyone else has any tips/tricks I would love to hear about them too.