Streamers in 2023 - Discussion, Impressions, etc

I may have missed it, but has anyone suggested the Singxer SU-6? Grab a Pi, use your favorite streaming software, output USB to the Singxer and you have lots of digital output options for $750. I'm not sure it's better than the Mercury because I haven't heard either one, but last I looked it was the best measuring digital interface on Goldenone's rather complete measurements and people seem to like the way it sounds.

 

Check out https://goldensound.audio/2023/02/09/holo-red-streamer-ddc-measurements/

 

TDLR; "The Holo RED is the lowest jitter and one of the lowest noise digital sources I’ve tested. Absolutely incredible performance that sets the current benchmark for a streamer or DDC. The fact that this level of performance is achieved at under $1000 is honestly incredible."

 

In my experience with quite a few streamers over the last 6 years, differences are small and it's difficult to isolate different factors such as power issues, and DAC differences. I have given some brief impressions over the years, but TBH the most reliable way I've had to compare streamers is my wife's hearing in blind tests, and she's not always willing to put up with my geekery.

 

I respect your opinions on all things music and gear. Here though our experiences and opinions differ. I think that even with different gear, I can hear differences with streamers. I think the magnitude of change may be just below the level of changing DACs of a similar value. I do think power supplies and treatment of incoming and outgoing data are big factors.
I read a great deal of geeking out over these things at places like Audiophilestyle. I understand to take it with a grain of salt and YMMV, but I’m willing to at least entertain the idea that streamers, Ethernet, cables, etc matter to an extent. I’m searching for ways to make digital sound more like my vinyl chain. IME decreasing levels of jitter leads to a sound more like what I get from vinyl.

 

I have changed streamers quite a bit since my first one, a Cubox-I 10 years ago, and at least some of the changes were relatively easy to hear. I think I could hear small but consistent improvements by using linear supplies with some of my more recent streamers such as USBridge and Pi2AES, but I can't say that a pricier streamer like the Metrum Ambre was worth it except for I2S with Metrum DACs. I own two Holo DACs, but I can't quite convince myself to get Holo Reds for them, given how my current HQPlayer>UP Gateway NAA>USB>Intona>USB>DAC setup sounds. But that may be because more recent Holo KTE DACs (unlike the original Spring 1) have very well designed USB receivers; the same way that Schiit Unison was noticeably better than their earlier USB receivers.

On the other hand, I got quite a surprise when a comms engineer I trust persuaded me to replace the cheap Netgear GS105 switches (which Linn recommends!) upstream of our Linn Klimax streamers with refurbished Cisco pro switches. My wife didn't even have to be prompted, she said right away that something had changed for the better. Since the Cisco switches and the Klimax stramers have optical ports, I then replaced copper ethernet by SFP fiber, but that made little if any difference.

So, yes, there are differences in the network>streamer>DAC world, but they seem more a matter of specific pairings than general rules/preferred gear. I'm especially suspicious about "audiophile" ethernet cables and isolators.

 

I currently use a D-Link DGS-108 switch behind the TV stand for wired connections. @earnmyturns, which model(s) of Cisco switchers did your friend recommend?

 

Okok... I'm biting this far and forgetting about this topic.

How did the word anger turn up? Doubt is not anger. Scepticism is not anger. Considering that something just might b be bollocks is not anger.

Better stop before I get angry


/Thats-it

 

https://www.cablesandkits.com/equip...cisco-2960-series/ws-c2960cg-8tc-l/pro-10120/

 

Thanks! I may try switching my D-Link out for one of those just to see if I hear a difference. The bonus is that it has a standard C14 inlet so I can use another power cable with a digital filter that costs twice as much as the actual router!

Did you have to do anything special or different when utilizing this switch instead of your Netgears? I've read something a while back that sometimes switches designed more for enterprise environments are managed instead of unmanaged (i.e., dumb switches) and so require more setup. With my D-Link (and I assume your Netgear) I just ran a cable from my router to one port on the switch, and then hooked up the devices to other ports on the switch.

 

Just worked, I have two of them in different locations.

 

I got mine from two different sources, no programming needed. I guess I was lucky...

 

I agree, doubt, skepticism, consideration, questioning, intelligent reasoning, etc are all good things but none of these are emotional. There is a lot of negative emotion in this thread for some reason about streaming components.

To me, they are just another part of the chain and something I'm interested in investigating to make my chain sound better, like the DAC, the amp and the headphones and yes, the cables too.

 

The tension around streamers comes from a cognitive dissonance: these are "purely digital" components, how could they affect sound unless they are flipping bits wantomly? I feel this conflict myself, having worked in digital stuff for 50 years. And yet, I can hear some differences. But still, I can't believe the extreme audiophile ethernet crowd. Back and forth, back and forth, between bits and waveforms, always unsettled. That's where the stress comes from.

There's more to say. Digital tends to alienate people from the analog world. Not only in audio, but also in biology (WTF "central dogma"), cognition (brains equated with computers), and in social relationships (as we are doing just now in this conversation). That alienation causes more stress because Alice can't believe that Bob can't see the gray between the black-and-white bits.

 

I mean, also "audiophile Ethernet cable" is a long-running mockery of audiophile magical nonsense, and yet people are sitting in this thread talking seriously about it. Of course there's going to be some skepticism.

And I mean, if you think you hear it, okay, you think you hear it. But the causal chain there is so implausible that I feel like you owe it to yourself to do blind testing and see if maybe you're imagining it.

 

Very good actually. This was 4 yrs ago. When Pi streamers were coming out. My gripe was they were just ARM based players with digital interface. There were no serious emphasis on the later aspect. Thus my crude setup of: Beelink GT-King (with UAPP as UPnP Renderer) + LPS -> LH Revive -> Singxer SU-6.

Already familiar with Android TV Boxes as streamers using USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) as UPnP render controlled by BubbleUPnP. My take for an economical streamer/server. This setup was 7/8 years ago with a Himedia Q10 Pro (w/ LH Revive at the back as USB reclock/regen):




Before that a smartphone (LG V20). 8/9 yrs ago.



Just saying my journey to streamers....

 

That's my take too.
If something that is very well understood becomes different in studio, I turn on the doubts and turn on the scepticism.
But however I feel about it, they are entitled to their feelings.

But then it turns into religion. I have this with a very dear friend. I don't want her god (never mind which, it applies to lots of people and lots of gods) or the fairy tale stuff she attaches to it. But I'm supposed to go all gooyey because... Religion. And that, to me, is no Trump card.
Nor is audio.

I have no doubt that all sorts of stuff goes on with amplifiers, speakers, etc etc, hey, I'm here, aren't I?

But we all see a heap of crap nonsense. And most of us don't need to take a second glance (or listen to) audiophile networking cables. Or wavy room decor, stones, cable supports blah blah blah. Oh: I tried green ink on CDs!

It's dangerous out there on Hifi-business Street. Be safe, be sceptical

 

There’s no mention of audiophile ethernet cables in this thread that I am aware of and that’s not what the thread is about anyways even if there is. It’s about streamers. I don’t really understand the deflection. The highly emotional responses are all about streamers more expensive than the Pi2AES. I love the Pi2AES and @Michael Kelly but come on. It’s just a component.