AudioQuest Nighthawk

I was probably just rushing. I just saw that Ev had imbalance showing on his... I shouldn't even post measurements if I don't feel great about them... I'm going to edit my posts to minimize the graphs. Update posts later.

EDIT: UPDATED MY MEASUREMENTS POST OF HYBRID PADS. Impressions to come later. Channel imbalance in bass was inconclusive, certainly some is inherent to EARS rig imbalance and after that positioning, pads, etc. Sharing just left-side measurements for now.

 

TRX500RP (TRX00 with TH500RP cups) is what I'll compare Nighthawk hybrid to. First impressions is that they are pretty similar overall but tone goes to TRX500RP. Nighthawk has tighter bass, brighter up top, mids a tad distant, soundstage smaller.

E_Schaaf mod will smooth tone. Enclosure would still be the reverberant bottleneck. 3DP cups @E_Schaaf and @tommytakis ?

edit: @M3NTAL

Spoiler

I had a baby Pioneer sub. But with room gain and DSP time alignment and EQ it was still impressive coming from Magnepans (in background). After diyma I went to big woofers and subs for home speakers.

My mids were much more expensive I remember and were more like wide banders. The tweeters were good stuff from Madisound but were not expensive. I had seen other people at the meets using windebanders on the dash combined with sub. Mostly though it was stuff for spl competition like line arrays and huge subs that basically turn the entire rear passenger compartment into just a giant speaker enclosure.

 

@Philimon just seeing your stock graph which once again shows quite a bit less 3khz presence than on my setup (still unsure which is 'correct'), I'm thinking the extra reinforcement of the felt patch on the rear of the driver over the center hole will measure better on your rig than it did on mine in the post I'm replying to above. Leave the paper on - put the felt on top of that.

So the recipe here is opening two baffle vents (one closer to the top, one bottom is what I arbitrarily selected when I did this but YMMV), felt patch on the middle part of the driver (on top of the paper), then I can send you some foam as pictured in the next few days. These are all reversible mods. Since I'll be out of commission for a bit I wouldn't mind 'passing the baton' so to speak til I'm settled and have access to the rest of my stuff again.

 

You can coach from sidelines. Ive no idea how to approach modding these. I tried modding EMU teaks and it was a … trying experience. I was just lucky that the TH500RP cups on TRX00 worked to my liking.

More correct? No idea. “Measuring is hard.” -Purr1n

Im vexed that removing cups didnt result in more changes to the frequency reponse. My TRX00 cup swap made a huge difference. Was hoping removing grill atleast would do something perfect like soften the highs. But Ill settle with EQ if those cant be modded out. Maybe more invasive mods like removing those back of driver paper filters will be more drastic. Maybe they are doing the most damping. Of a denser fiber vs THX00?

The Nighthawk cups are pretty resonant which cant be equalizered out. Ill try adding damplifier pro in spots on driver baffle and cups and see if that makes a noticeable difference. Did you try listening to the headphones with cups removed? Did it sound more different than it measured?

Slightest loss in pad seal makes a tremendous difference. Im thinking in regular use my long hair makes these much less bassy than measured. I guess that goes for all my headphones. Maybe I am not as big a basshead as I imagine. Would be funny if I thought ETA Supra were too bassy because there is no leakage from hair break with an on-ear.

Thanks for the tips. Please continue to suggest mods. IOU via Paypal. Reply to pm.

 

Like these lots. Highs not too bad to enjoy. Bass hits harder and more detailed vs TRX00. I might hear these a little different due to long hair possibly leaking bass. I still get that closed-in soundstage associated with closed headphones, much worse than TRX00 or EMU but I think thats also a result of the bass being more powerful and creating some of that pressurized feel. Would be interesting to test these without cups but the headband is attached to cups instead of driver baffle like TRX00. :/ Headand and comfort is excellent btw. Mods could make these a steal vs an unmodded TH900 (ive not heard).

I remember Denon D5200 having better bass than EMU and TRX00 but the highs were way too strong. Hmm. I shouldve tried those without cups. TRX00 with open cups does have looser bass than with stock closed cups, however the overall tone is much nicer. Its now like a 6XX with better bass.

NH bass pressure is a little fatiguing. Maybe some fatigue a symptom from a resonant enclosure? Mass damping mod is first then Ill try Ev’s mods.

 

These are the OG Nighthawks right, not the Carbon version?

 

OG

 

^ Insides. Mine smells like a moldy banana.


^ Kewl.


^ Leaky baffle.


^ Way easier to open and access vs Foster!

@E_Schaaf How can you tell the strength of the magnets? Alls I see is a serial number stamped: 5H63.

 

Loaded with damplifier pro. Didnt add ad as much to baffle because I am low on supply. Just ordered more. And did you say remove all the baffle vent paper filters? @E_Schaaf Kidding. You said two. I just wanted to try.

 

run the driver in some enclosure simulations and you might be able to tune them to your tastes.

 

Yeah I dont know how to do that. DIY speakers I've built were from others designs. If you know how to do that with headphone drivers and enclosures then please start a thread!


^ All left side.

Good news: no bass fatigue. Bad news: there's no bass.
Sorta, its definitely lost all its power and warmth.
Channel imbalance is now worse than before. I think its the stock damping material's fault. The pieces are not well cut and density varies. I'm going to try measures without and replace with Ev's foam later.

 

Claims of channel imbalance were overblown. I dont think there is one beyond whats inherent in my measurement rig and possibly pads and positioning and other normal variations from mehsures. Left side I have tweaked to be more consistent with purr1n's EARS measurements, which really only required work in the upper mids and highs to better match. I am lazy and never modified right side thus I generally only present left side measurements. You will hear no more about channel imbalance with Nighthawk, and I'll post only left side measurements from here on.



Removing stock fuzz damping seemed to result in a couple dB loss in bass. Removing all baffle filters was also a bad move. I'll try Ev's suggestions now.

 

Replaced baffle vent paper filters with micropore tape. mod2 = returning to stock basically except damplifier pro added and stock damping fuzz removed which will be replaced with something else later.

Will do an extended listen to decide if I think damplifier helped with bass fatigue.
Listening to it now and maybe brains adjusting but I like besides a little much highs around 8kHz.

 

Since micropore tape appears to be a fine substitute Id like to experiment with removing rear driver damping filter paper as well. This was something @E_Schaaf tried previously with Fostex etc. And just from your initial analyzing of the Nighthawk Im predicting you can already predict what would happen if I removed those filters and substituted with alternatives. Its a matter of damping the driver and managing reflections Im guessing. Unfortunately the cups are very leaky so altering driver damping at a different junction from stock would require addressing the leaks. Or Im mistaken which I also predict.

 

A little different than Fostex and Emu. Dont know if closer to D5200 driver construction. D5200 sources drivers from other than Foster… The back of the magnet is a plastic enclosure with Audioquest initials so would be hard to tell from looks. @purr1n ’s Denon measurements for comparison.

 

^ From last post: the center driver vent filter removed. Showing all the bad seal measures too. These are picky.

Anyways, wife will have a listen now and tell me what she thinks. She has not heard these headphones at all yet. And I've not listened to mod3 yet either. I've not given her an opinion or details on the headphones. Update with impressions later.

 

I forgot to say if I thought mass damping helped. I think it did. Perceived less fatigue and less reverb (like the sound of an acoustic guitars hollow body), and the closed-in feel from initial impressions didnt feel as serious. Or Ive adjusted… I have to admit my ears are a little tired this morning so am not in a rush to have a listen to mod3. I think mod3 is going to suck. Also the drivers are very sensitive like Fosters so I have to playback music a little louder than I prefer because volume controls cannot go lower without adding imbalance from Vali2.

Anyone know what AQ was referring to with “split gap motor”? Is it unique vs bio Foster drivers or is it marketing poetry?

 

Removing the central magnet paper has the opposite effect vs adding the felt patch on top of the stock paper - taking it off gives you more bass and less upper midrange (~3k area) whereas adding more coverage does the opposite.

With that paper off, you're allowing the driver to push with a bit more excursion at all times, but you're also likely affecting the pistonic behavior relative to the sides of the cone (thankfully with this driver type the flexing surround helps a lot in terms of that breakup tendency). You might hear a mild loss of dynamic focus (not a loss of general energy, more a diffusion of that energy) for a more 'rounded' sound. If you want to keep that hole open, I'd suggest reopening the baffle vents to accomodate for the uber-bass you have there with the magnet vent open. It probably sounds pretty bloated and floppy as-is. Increasing baffle airflow to compensate may give more usable results.

Whatever you like. YMMV.

 

Right on E_Schaaf. Mod3 sounded way midbassy and less tight/fast.

Mod4 was to see if micropore worked as substitute. It was very close. I can add pics and measures later.
Mod5 was to try removing TWO baffle vent filters. Pics later.



Needs a little more bass. I think only ONE baffle vent filter removed will be good for Mod6.
These baffle vent filter deletes I think help well with that tiny bit of bass fatigue.