MEE audio Pinnacle P1 Measurements

Discussion in 'IEM Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 12, 2016.

  1. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Yeah, but I find that they still degrade, and the memory foam effect drops off, no matter what you do. They remind me of the industrial 3M earplugs that I use to sleep, due to noisy neighbours- fantastic but need to be thrown away as soon as they degrade.

    If they were priced more similarly, I'd use them, but then I'd still have the problem of them taking so long to put in/take out- totally annoying when some random dickhead in a shop plants themselves in front of you, waving their arms.. Just to ask "can I help you?" (pet hate).
     
  2. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Update, at the risk of following my own post.. I got some Spinfit C100-M and C100-L tips, and they are a far less awkward and painful way to get a good seal.

    Prior to that, I had been using the included triple flange tips, which sealed reasonably well, if you rammed them home mercilessly, but they were somewhat uncomfortable. The spinfits go in more easily, even the large ones, and provide a much nicer seal- especially the large ones. It's now much easier to get bass out of them. Rather worrying, I am hearing some sibilance on vocals now, though- is that something to do with positioning in the ear canal, or just hearing more clearly?

    (First noticed on lossless Dark Side Of The Moon 20th Anniversary edition, out of the Mojo, for the odd curious soul who'd wish to know)

    There are only a few hours on the P1s though, so it will be interesting to see if it goes away.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  3. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    I would say the sibilance is positioning. The lower treble peak will slightly move up and down the frequency response based on depth of fit. Typically the peak is lower in amplitude and slightly higher up in frequency response with a deeper fit. The peak may gain a little in amplitude and be lower in the frequency response with a shallower fit. Definitely play with insertion depth.
     
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  4. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Hmm, I think you're right. Hearing less sibilance with the medium Spinfits than the large, albeit a bit less bass. However, the bass is still present, so we're getting there!

    (Thanks for the response, nice to know I'm not going mad..)

    Edit:

    OK, I have tried Spinfits, I have tried Comply, I have tried various pack-in tips, and they're still so sibilant, it's like listening to barbed wire. I have messed with the insertion depth, if they're deep enough to seal to actually give bass, the sibilance is overwhelming. This may be my most unpleasant IEM listening experience yet. This is looking like money down the drain.

    Even listening to something innocuous like "Brain Damage" by Pink Floyd is physically painful. I have never experienced anything like it before in an IEM. Do you think they're broken?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  5. limesoft

    limesoft Acquaintance

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    Hello! My first post here, I thought I'd chime in as bought the Pinnacle P1 couple of days ago

    At first using non-comply tips they sounded sibilant for sure.. I used the large size comply but I was jamming them in a little too deep (also not getting a good enough seal), the treble was a little better but still grating. I even tried jamming in bit of toilet paper in the nozzles, not a good idea :)
    Then instead of preparing the complys first, I just put them in without squeezing, and by slowly turning them in my ear like a screwdriver with the cables normally positioned (not over ear), this worked best to get a better seal for my ears and to get the treble under more control with medium/shallow depth insert.

    I'm using Chord Mojo, which I thought was neutral, even so the P1s exposed it as slightly lean with touch of glare, something which i previously suspected when using it with my HD600.. the Pinns take no prisoners. So, I then tried M2Tech Hiface 2 with battery power> coax >Mojo (Mojo likes quality spdif), and this dropped the glare a notch, made the soundstage wider and warmed things up a little further.

    This had made the P1s smoother and more pleasing, but they might still be a little hot, not sibilant - they certainly should not be painful to listen to. I am a neutral head who likes flat/balanced frequency response such as HD600, Room Corrected Genelec 8330 speakers, and the P1s might be just outside my accepted parameters (or not?)

    So to summarise: Use high quality smooth/warm source if you can, must seal properly with comply tips but not too deep an insert, you can EQ -4db @ 8.5khz

    I really wish they used more neutral tuning however, the drivers are fantastic - dynamic, fast, coherent, excellent instrument separation. They trashed my Ortofon EQ5 which now sound like mono mush with no extension. In some ways also beating my HD600 with better precision. What might be a more neutral P1-like alternative? Campfire Andromed at 10 times the cost? I don't know :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
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  6. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Yes, did all of that. I can listen to unmodified HD800 from a solid state amp, and can tolerate Grados (if not enjoy them), so I'm certainly on first-name terms with Mister Treble. I can't, however, get these IEMs to sound reasonable with Spinfit, Comply or triple flange tips, no matter how deep or shallow the insertion.

    However, even with the Comply tips, they're brittle, glarey and very sibilant. Given that most of the at least mildly coherent reviews talk about how smooth the highs are, the fact that they're mind-flayingly harsh shows that maybe my pair has issues. Have sent them back to the dealer to let them give them a listen and compare them to stock. We'll see what happens.

    Meanwhile, the slightly brittle BA-highs of my SE535 found far more mellow.

    Edit: Not sure that I'd describe the Mojo as having glare- it's tuned a tad bassy, and rolled-off a bit at the top end. It's quite a laid-back sound.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  7. limesoft

    limesoft Acquaintance

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    Sounds like certainly something fishy going on with your P1s - I'm interested what Mee Audio will say..

    Re Mojo glare - perhaps that's the wrong word, it's a matter of lack of lower end grunt with a feeling of strange DSP going on in the high frequencies, like a gloss when using it via USB - it's subtle but enough with super revealing phones. using a quality spdif improves performance significantly.
     
  8. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Oh, so rather than glary as in hot high frequencies, you mean that slightly rough "digital" sound, like you get particularly from Delta/Sigma DACs (think ESS Sabre)? If that's the case, then yes, that one I have heard.. I don't hear it all the time, just with specific stuff.

    I have to say, my much cheaper Modi Multibit sounds nicer, in general- just isn't exactly portable!
     
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  9. limesoft

    limesoft Acquaintance

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    I haven't listened to any of the Schiit products but would be interested in comparing with the Chord. I find that the Mojo generally is quite bad at extracting clean digital signal especially using USB. Mojo + USB from macbook is the worst - the sound lacks dynamics and has that rough digital sound you mentioned, Optical out from macbook comes next (also quite rough but a bit more dynamic), USB from Android phone things start improving, and finally Android Phone > M2Tech Hiface 2 spdif > Mojo, sounds fantastic, quite large difference and it has an analogue/tube like quality- this is where it can compete with desktop dacs in similar price range. btw M2Tech hiface 2 also likes battery/clean usb power to sound it's best - Android phone is good for this. The hifaces can be had for less than 100£ on ebay

    Back to the P1; last night I tried the medium sized comply tips, i jammed them in deeper and realised that I don't have Dumbo ears I originally though i did - the fit is good, more comfort, and surprise surprise, the P1 sound more balanced! down goes the sharp peak a bit and the mids rise up a touch - it now has a warmish balanced signature with a smooth sparkle up top, close (but not quite there) to the HD600 balance. Anyone finding the treble too piercing, keep rolling those tips until the Mees behave themselves
     
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  10. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Like I say, I tried pretty much every tip option out there, including comply and spinfit. I also tried varying the angle and depth- everything short of lubing them up and inserting them anally. I initially assumed that it was a problem with them being inserted too deeply, but no, far from it. Even if they weren't far enough in to seal properly, mine sounded piercingly sibilant- really unpleasant, headache-inducingly so. All high frequencies with any sort of sharp attack became painful.

    Likewise, inserting them uncomfortably deep (slowly and carefully) until it felt like the damn things would meet in the middle just made the stabby sibilance louder- every hat or snare flaying at my hearing, and the phrase "I'll see you on the dark side of the moon" almost resulting in loss of bowel control.

    This is not my first rodeo, nor my first pair of IEMs. I'm fine with a bit of treble in general, and just wanted something with a dynamic driver for smoother highs, for stuff that sounds a bit fizzy on BAs. What I got was the worst treble handling that I have ever encountered in any headphone ever. What the hell was wrong with them, I don't know. It's a shame, I love the build quality and overall package (though some sleeving at the ear end of the cables wouldn't hurt). I really hope that I get a working replacement pair, otherwise I will just revert to my SE535 and use the SE215* when I want to get rid of the fizz, which is a bit ghetto.



    * Which lack a bit of detail, but are OK from the Mojo. Out of the phone, something dreadful happens to the FR, almost all the treble vanishes and it all drowns under a really loose soupy bass.. something to do with OI or voltage swing, I guess.
     
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  11. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    Sounds like your ear anatomy may just be incompatible with the treble FR. It happens.
     
  12. kepalafon

    kepalafon Rando

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    The P1 works fine for my ears, no bowel-movement inducing high peaks :) Sorry to hear you're having trouble with yours..maybe you have a lemon?

    It's also interesting to note your observation regarding the SE215 and how bad it sounds straight out of a phone. I use mine with a HTC One M8 and they sound ok, not good nor great, just ok. I do notice that the lower frequencies sound...bloomy, bloated. Slow. Hard to explain. Pity because I'd really like to love them, but I can't. I haven't paired a Mojo with the SE215 yet tho, mostly because I don't have a Mojo. But out of my Fiio Q1 they sound generally the same, not much improvement if any.
     
  13. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    The SE215 sogginess out of my Nexus 6 wasn't subtle, either.. I took a dip out around 200Hz, and then rolled the bass in general down a bit to make it more tolerable (and let me hear more of the other frequencies), but it all sounded terribly sluggish. Listening without EQ was a bit too rubbish to bother with. Out of the Mojo (which, ironically, is known for being a bit bassy and slightly rolled-off), it was much better balanced and more snappy.

    I don't know what to say about the P1s, I'm not exactly treble-averse, or unused to finagling IEMs to get them to fit well. I really wanted to like them, as I loved the sturdy shell and replaceable cables, and the measurements looked pretty decent. There's really not a lot like them in the same price bracket either!

    Oh well, my daily mobile chain of old Android phone (in flight mode) banded to my Mojo, and a pair of SE535 is really very pleasant anyway, I shouldn't grumble.
     
  14. Dreyka

    Dreyka Acquaintance

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  15. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    ..well, I got a full refund for mine. That was not a pleasant listening experience. Back to the SE535 for now.
     
  16. limesoft

    limesoft Acquaintance

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    I think I'm struggling a little with mine too, that uneven mid and treble frequency can be annoying on certain tracks. I might try the Audio Technica IM02 If I can get hold of them somewhere, their measurements suggest a more neutral response
     
  17. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Oh, sorry to hear that, it did sound like you were doing OK with them for a while there.

    I loved the build quality of them, and really wanted to like them, but they actually made my ears ring and put me off music for a few days- not a good sign.
     
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  18. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    @Kattefjaes remind me which full size hp-s you prefer and what music you tend to listen to with iem-s.

    I found the P1 sterile and lacking in meat in highs and high mids, sort of metallic taste to it.
    Also slightly sibilant, but this was not the turnoff for me. The metallic timber surely was.
     
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  19. limesoft

    limesoft Acquaintance

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    I'm finding I'm constantly fiddling with comply tips to find the best compromise between sound and comfort - to get reasonable sound I'm having to do deep insert, but this hurts my ears.. to get comfort I have to deal with distant mids and overly sparkly treble.

    It's go deep or go home :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
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  20. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    That's what.. (etc.) In my case, deep didn't help a bit, just made it a bit more uncomfortable, that's what (etc.) again :)

    Oh, I know the difference between slight sibilance and severe sibilance, and this was some of the most brain-gouging treble nastiness that I had ever heard. I mean, beyond HD700 on solid state bad. There was something badly off. If it was an image, it'd be like someone over-cranked unsharp mask.
     
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