New Schiit / Preamps and Power Amp (was Putting the Schiit Signal Up)

Discussion in 'Preamps' started by purr1n, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. aafnp

    aafnp Rando

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    What sonic difference would you all expect from the vidar vs. other power amps with equivalent output?
     
  2. Malabargold

    Malabargold Flipper

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    After extensively testing my personal, pre-release Vidar just for you the answer is....:rolleyes:

    (Pre-amp release should be any day now for those with schiit-anxiousness)
     
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  3. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I realized I could extend some of my balanced headphone cables and put the Jotunheim on my audio rack. Since whatever future power amp I choose most likely won't have balanced ins, I can run the balanced outs from the Freya into the Joti and the SE out into the power amp. That way the Joti can continue to benefit from the Modi Multibit and get a tube buffer as well. And I can listen to vinyl on headphones if I felt like it.
     
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  4. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Looks like it's gonna be 31 oct for the freya? Get your Credit Card ready! It's about to be Schiiting tubes.
     
  5. zonto

    zonto Friend

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  6. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I check the Schiit website at least once a day just in case.
     
  7. Rotijon

    Rotijon Friend

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    @schiit

    Thanks for the update, just a few quick questions.

    What would you guys consider as a good and not affordable new production 6SN7 tube for the freya?

    Will the vidar be schiits only real foray into 2 channel amps or are we looking at a potential flagship coming? Pivot point maybe? Just asking as i have TOTL syndrome, ie i have to have the best model from the maker... maybe for peace of mind i suppose, and also why i cannot go and start looking and soulution.
     
  8. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    A couple @schiit timing updates from HF below. Not adding to Compendium, but didn't see discussed here.

    "Aaannd...a quick update on Freya first articles.

    Argh.

    Bottom line: there will be a delay. The boards are the culprit. While one looked OK, and performed OK, for the show, there are some internal problems (they are 3-layer boards, and yes, they are electrically tested, but we've seen situations where electrical testing doesn't tell the whole tale, and this appears to be one of them.)

    So, we're getting replacement boards from the supplier. This will take about a week. Beyond that, things should move fairly quickly--as in, I'd still expect Freya to ship this month at this point in time. However, I've been surprised before...so we'll see.

    Argh."

    (source)
    "Newsflash: Saga boards have arrived in quantity, so shipping is only a few days off.

    I will have a chapter on Vidar shortly. Vidar is a saga in itself..."

    (source)

    ----
    [speculation]

    Per the Compendium, "[Vidar] is said to be the strongest of the gods after Thor," meaning he's the second strongest god in Norse mythology. Bet we'll see a "flagship" eventually, potentially named Thor.

    [/speculation]
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  9. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    2016 Chapter 15: The Vidar Chronicles, Part I. Compendium updated.

    . . . [Vidar has] also survived an impressive array of torture-tests after the show, including:
    1. Running to thermal shutdown to test the thermal measurement.
    2. Running to clipping within and outside the audio bandwidth to check for nasty stuff like simultaneous conduction.
    3. Shorting at clipping and below to test the protection system.
    4. Running for hours into Magneplanars at high volumes.
    5. Being handed off to employees and friends to see if they survive normal handling (accidental shorts, etc).
    6. Validation of performance into reactive loads at high levels.
    7. 1/8 power and 1/3 power long-term testing.
    And that’s where things go off the rails a bit—with the 1/8 power and 1/3 power testing. As of this writing, the amps will make it through the 1/8 power for 1 hour plus 5 minutes at full output that the FTC mandates. But they make it only about 15 minutes into the 1/3 power testing before the thermal protection shuts them down. . . . But the fact is, the Vidar prototype is running much warmer than expected, especially when compared against a Polaris 2 with the same amount of heatsinking. . . .

    So what do we do? We look at other options.

    Vidar The Third: The Charm?

    These “other options” mean “new heatsink design that will probably end up being structural and external.” Which means we may even end up saving some money, since the chassis becomes simpler. But that’s all yet to be seen. I’m waiting for some quotes right now, both on price and availability, that will determine our future direction.

    “Oh no, so we’re gonna see Vidar in 2018, that’s what you’re saying, right?”

    Not at all. In fact, I don’t see any reason to revise our timeline of shipping in Q1 2017. Even with having to go to a new heatsink design. Here’s why:
    1. The hard parts of determining topology, etc are done. We have something, we know what it is, we know how it performs, and it’s both a logical extension of our Pivot Point topology and the Ragnarok control system.
    2. We have an amp that’s electrically fantastic. It overperforms on power output, delivers very low distortion, is dead-stable, and has a great “Generation 2” control system that eliminates the stuff you don’t want in an amp (coupling caps and DC servos) but doesn’t de-bias on 1/3 power testing.
    3. It’s been torture-tested. Severely. The fact that it gets VERY hot and still doesn’t fail is a big plus, because it won’t get that hot in final form.
    All we need to do is get rid of the heat.

    And that, I’ve done before. In going back to external heatsinks, this is something that I’m completely familiar with. It’s also an amazing boon, because it allows us more area to spread out the parts, reduce heat concentration, and eliminate heat spreaders. The amp gets simpler…again.

    So now, I’ll close this part one—and look forward to seeing where the heatsink options come in…

    To be continued.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2016
  10. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    Someone, somewhere, is going to interpret this as a challenge and not a statement.
     
  11. aafnp

    aafnp Rando

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    FYI, the Saga is up for sale now
     
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  12. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    With the same size as the Jotun, it'd be really fascinating to see what the tonal characteristics of the Saga is. Could throw the Saga side by side (or stack them) for a really interesting, budget total system solution.

    If the Saga ends up being warm or warm-leaning, I think it could be an interesting pairing with the Jotun if you wanted some tube warmness and to take advantage of the Jotun's characteristics.

    Edit: Upon some quick self examination, I feel like I may be posting just for the sake of posting and seeing my own words go up, and I worry that I'm contributing more 'noise' than I am 'signal.' If any senior SBAF members want to weigh in with an observation on me, I'd appreciate and welcome it, if not I may just keep quiet for a while unless I feel like I have something more meaningful to contribute.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  13. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Saga's manual has drawings of the remote control for those interested.
     
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  14. sublime9

    sublime9 Rando

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    It is because switching power supply noise shows up in the high audio spectrum, 5000 Hz-2MHz. Even when it exceeds the audible , it can rob your amp of power. Subs are cross overed so this noise is gone.
     
  15. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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  16. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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  17. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    @10:15, he mentioned that he could have designed a better performing Class A(linear) amp over Switching D but he stuck to more complex Class D designs due to efficiency and challenge?

    Personally I still think class D is more suited to Home Theater setups and portables. Audiophiles who seek ultimate sound quality should just stick to Class A unless your budget doesn't allow for it then you should go for cheaper A/B instead of D.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  18. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    My speaker setup, which is decidedly low-fi, includes a class D integrated (Peachtree decco65), and I think it sounds pretty good, especially for five bills. It is a small room, my speakers aren't especially resolving or demanding (Monitor Audio BX-2), and it rarely gets played very loud. I added a $90 sub, and usually use a base Pulse for d/a conversion, as it sounds considerably better than the onboard dac in the decco. All in it's a $1200 (new) rig, and it sounds pretty good to me, I think better than I could have done with an A/B-based amp for the same $. My point is that it is all about context. For my situation, I am very happy with it. It never fails to move me when music is coming out of it.:rolleyes:
     
  19. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Remember this is also fours year old now...at the rate Class D is being developed I'd imagine there have been appreciable gains made in the interim as well. I'm not saying there's parity, but I'd love to see one of our experienced testers get their hands on a current Nord amp for example to see how big the gap really is.
     
  20. Muse Wanderer

    Muse Wanderer Friend

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    It really deoends on the implementation.

    In my case, pure class A from the Musical Fidelity M6i amp (200wpc) was warm, one note bass, harsh with sibilant treble and intolerable timbre.

    My Ragnarok running in class A/B at 60WPC into 8 ohms (Monitor audio GX100) sounds so much better with excellent detail, smooth mids, gorgeous treble and good enough bass with bookshelves.
     
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