Sennheiser HD650 Love (Appreciation Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 27, 2015.

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  1. juanchotazo99

    juanchotazo99 Rando

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    Unrestricted driver/magnet hole results in too much bass and midbass that bleeds everywhere, even becoming boomy. Doesn't turn the HD650 into basshead cans, but it sure throws the whole thing off.

    On top of that, entirely removing the front foam results in too much highs in my experience. That's why there's the coin mod, you get just enough foam out to get an improvement, not more. Back when I'd gotten mine, I'd tried them without the front foam and they didn't last 5 minutes before going back to having the foam in there and doing the coin mod. Doesn't sound good.

    I wouldn't be surprised if these HD650s had a V shaped frequency response relative to stock or KISS.
     
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  2. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Depends on the amp/chain. On my 445, I preferred it with the front foam removed, as it sounded much clearer and the highs weren't a problem. I've tried that with other chains and it was a bit too much, so it just depends.
     
  3. ksat90

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    My SO likes the 650 so much she just brought in on a 1 month trip.
    As a result now I'm thinking of the HD 600 to complete the 58x (no OG 580 unfortunately), 600, 650 trio.
     
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  4. ColdsnapBry

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    I don't know what's happened but for some reason the HD 650 has really clicked for me.. Maybe I've just been unlucky with my previous versions -

    1st time ordering 6xx it arrived with right driver failed, I just returned it
    2nd time ordering 6xx it just sounded really flat and boring, I passed it on
    3rd time ordering a 6xx the 3k and 4k peaks were bugging the hell out of me, I passed it on
    4th time ordering the 6xx this one seems to be just right, I don't notice the 3k and 4k peaks, the sound stage is better, it's actually got more punch and slam than my Aeolus.

    Maybe it's because I've slowly upgraded my chain as I buy / sell / rebuy the 6XX and it's scaled with my chains.

    I actually hardly listened to my Aeolus lately, what's going on?!
     
  5. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    For me:

    1st time bought old 650 from ebay with some silly moon audio dragon cable. Sounded very unexciting to me. Sold the fancy dragon cable off and later on the 6xx with some net profit, almost felt bad about it.
    2nd time ordering 650 years later it just just sounded right to me right away, instruments have correct timbre basically. Much better than most other things I had tried by then. Modding it with KISS it just sounds extremely good for its class. Still using it a lot.
     
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  6. señorhifi

    señorhifi Friend

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    I had a similar experience too. First time I got a HD6XX it sounded oddly closed in with no treble extension (this bc I was used to a K712). Then I got tired of the K712's treble and and bought a silver screen HD650. This one had wider soundstage on it (weird), but still not enough treble and too much midbass. Kiss modded it, and now it's my favorite (I haven't owned any TOTLs yet).
     
  7. Pharmaboy

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    I listened to a stock HD650 quite a lot as part of reviewing the JAR650, a creative & extensive HD 650 mod by Jupiter Audio Research. I liked the stock headphone immediately & liked the JAR650 even more.

    IMO the HD650 platform is a listening experience one has to downshift & relax into. It's not overtly exciting or dramatic; the bass & dynamics don't thrill you; the soundstage is intimate and overall tonality is musical & merciful. The real magic is in the midrange, where most of the music lives.

    Once I downshifted and just let the HD 650 happen to my ears, I enjoyed it a lot. I just proceeded to really listen to music I loved as well as new music that interested me. I see the HD650 as a "monitoring" headphone because it's relatively restrained and undramatic, yet has a musical sound that pulls the listener in.

    I have several TOTLs these days, including a silkwood Verite, blackwood Aeolus, and slightly modded Final D8000. All 3 are more rousing & entertaining than the HD650 and do almost everything better than it does. But that doesn't certainly mean the HD650 has no place at the table...
     
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  8. Erroneous

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    @señorhifi Keep leveling up your chain and eventually you'll realize that the 650 has been TOTL all along.
     
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  9. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    I'm curious as to why you kept coming back to these when the first three bugged you so much, aside from the defective first pair?
     
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  10. señorhifi

    señorhifi Friend

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    Yes, I just got a Jot2 and damn, I didn't know the HD650KISS could sound this good in the bass. Layering and depth all improved too. So much more enjoyable than the entry level amps I had before (Magni3, FiiO K5, and iFi Zen Can). I am now looking for a slightly nicer DAC than the Modi3, that won't break the bank. Probs iFi Zen Dac Sig will be the one.

    I'll see what I do, but for now, Jot2 was a great purchase and totally shows how well this thing scales!
     
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  11. ColdsnapBry

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    I kept coming back to them because of how light, open and comfortable they were. I'd get them to use while working, then realised I didn't like them, sell them for a profit and the cycle would start again. Haha.
     
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  12. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I recall @E_Schaaf posted hd600/650 mod many pages back in this thread. I tried them out today and tweaked a bit in my own ways. I didn't expect much measurable changes, but the measurement revealed several interesting deltas.

    To begin with, let me quickly paste the links to the posts I referred to.
    And here are major changes from his specific recipet
    • Back
      • I adhered to dynamat instead of goop as I only have dynamat atm.
      • And instead of mimicking hella complicated Ev's way, I just applied Kiss mod which can be summarized 6 dynamat pieces plus a crescent shape folded foam disc. Nothing else.
    • Front
      • Instead of tungsten tape, I keep using dynamat to add more weights
      • I used lens cleaning microfiber cloth whose texture seems finer and smoother than what Ev used (no idea of its acoustic impact.. just reporting)
      • I applied two microfiber pieces per channel (similar to what Ev did with 600). And changed the area covered by the cloth. See the photos below.
      • I had no sushi piece at the moment to use as riser (regretted I sent out everything along with Gen-G oh well). Used Senn's original acoustic filter (front damping sponge) instead. I folded the whole filter three times and pushed to fit into the space. I intentionally applied this only one side of the oval to achieve mildly angled driver placement.
    IMG_0322.JPG IMG_0319.JPG IMG_0321.JPG

    Next up are measurements in several different aspects. For all the measurements below, I tried my best to place pads in the same position before and after modding. Measurements done 3 times for each of 90 dbspl, 95 dbspl, and 100 dbspl calibration at 300hz. FR and CSD results used 95dbspl (note: I couldn't find variance across signal levels). And distortion results used 100dbspl as it showed higher order harmonic differences better (difference patterns observed in similar ways but weaker at lower fundamental strengths).

    [​IMG]

    1. Bass is very slightly but audibly thicker.
    2. Upper midrange to lower treble up to 4khz became "Audeze-ish". This sacrificed vocal clarity a bit (sound more distant) but contributed to noticeably better staging.
    3. Middle to upper treble (5khz to 9khz) became smoother. This somehow seems to reduce fatigue and nastiness I often hear from some tracks with 650. I surmise 7-9khz change played more important roles than 5-7khz one tho.
    4. At a glance, it seems that 5khz peak is more problematic as it protrudes without cohesive connection to the neighbors. However, I didn't hear that way. CSD may explain this. More on this shortly.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Distortion results were even more interesting. The mod increased D2 roughly by 3db in bass and upper midrange regions. But D3-D5 results point out distortion orders we may not want were better controlled. Subjectively I hear less haziness and vocals got somewhat warmer. Curious if my subjective findings were associated with distortion measurements.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    As I said I didn't feel 5khz peak as much or obviously as the FR graph suggested. To my ears whole tonality became rather more linear. And in the CSD waterfall plot, interestingly, 5khz peak mixed better with the neighboring regions as decay develops.

    Overall, I got interesting results objectively and subjectively. But you guys should be aware that I didn't do this in scientific ways by any means. Therefore it's very difficult to associate which modding component caused which effect. Take any of my guesses with a grain of salt.
     
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  13. econaut

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  14. wormcycle

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  15. econaut

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  16. Tekker

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    Yes I tried it - it made the upper-mids and highs a bit smoother in texture, slightly increased bass extension, mid bass impact and tightness of the bass, but decreased the upper bass quantity slightly due to I would assume less distortion there.

    I don’t have an HD650 at the moment, but I would definitely recommend it if you like the described change without doing irreversibel mods.

    Last year I put some Dynamat around the back housing, I did NOT like what it did to the bass - it made the bass very weak, but the highs got slightly more refined and there was a tiny bit more detail.

    The copper kit basically does that, but it doesn’t destroy the bass at all.
     
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  17. Baten

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    Yeah I personally sent in my HD600 to CustomCans because
    -the KISS/dynamat loading mod is HD650 approved but not really confirmed to work well with HD580/HD600
    -the copper loading mod seems compatible with both (although I don't see why you wouldn't just KISS mod your HD650s)
    Note that I sent it in before Brexit custom duties were a thing, now it would be rather pricy to send it to the UK and back from within EU since it now follows import procedures.....
     
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  18. Tekker

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    Well I did try the KISS mod, except without the front foam removed, since I like the quantity of the highs with the front foam in place - it would be too bright for me if I would remove it. I didn’t like what the Dynamat did to the bass quantity. The copper kit is way better for me.
     
  19. Baten

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    Perhaps one more thing worth mentioning. The copper loaded sennies are my daily drivers. I should really do a thorough comparison to my kiss modded HD650 once I finish this move and settle a bit at new place. But I really like the copper modded ones, just very solid sound and never fatiguing while being sufficiently detailed.

    My one complaint with HD650s is that once the pads really start to wear, you lose all of its brilliance and end up with serious warm-poo. HD 580Precison/HD600 don't suffer as much from pad wear. For that reason my 650s have become more of a 'special occasion' kind of headphone. Just me being cheap though and not buying fresh pads often enough :D
     
  20. señorhifi

    señorhifi Friend

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    The more I got into Hi-Fi, the more I realized that's what I like: the HD650 KISS with flat pads. I like this combo alongside the Modi 3. I am just severly treble shy. To think a year ago I used a TEAC UD301 (bright af) + K712 (slightly bright) + FiiO K5 (slightly bright/glary). I wanted to kill myself with that combo at times.
     

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