Topping DACs Part Deux

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by urbanjanitor, Feb 1, 2022.

  1. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    MOD EDIT: Post started innocuously enough in the HE6se thread, but took a turn for the worse. Posts were removed from original thread to here to start on a new topic, which seems to come up once every few years.
    --

    Came here to rep and hype the xDuoo TA-30 for the HE6se. I love this amp. I have a Jot 2 and a THX 789, both of which have plenty of power to drive the HE6se, yet I almost always prefer the sound from my TA-30 with Jot 2 coming in an aggressive second (great with certain genres). It's the only tube hybrid amp I could find that pumps out enough watts to power the HE6se to it's highest potential outside of speaker amps (over 2 watts at a 50 ohm load). It's a hybrid, so the tubes actually function as a kind of preamp and the output stage is Class A. All that to say, it still sounds tight with great clarity and dynamics, but you're able to get just a little softening of some of the sharp edges in the treble and just enough of that tube sound (distortion, roll-off) to really make these hifiman sing in euphonic harmony without wrecking the frequency response or nerfing the bass at all. Plus it's fun to tube roll.

    Disclaimer: I should probably mention that while the TA-30 is amazing because it pumps out over 2 watts into a 50 ohm load, it's also a very niche amp because of that. There's no gain switch and apparently xDuoo caters to the nearly deaf, because it's incredibly overpowered for any other headphone I've used. In fact, I have to lower the volume by about 15 db on a digital preamp just to use this amp with my HE6se's from about 8:30-12 on the dial. I am a low volume listener, so your mileage may vary, but it's the only thing I dislike about the xDuoo.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2022
  2. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    Yes, it will definitely power them fine. Looks like it should put out well over 2 watts at 50 ohm balanced, which is what hifiman recommends.
     
  3. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    For all headphone/amp/dac chains, you're going to want to see if the combo has the synergy that you like and your decision will be based on personal preferences. With that said, the 887 has plenty of power to adequately drive the HE6se (which a lot of headphone amplifiers don't).
     
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  4. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    LOL, yeah fair enough. I have the THX AAA 789 and it's not my favorite combination with the HE6se. Great for analytical listening and some genres though.
     
  5. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    I had the Modi Multibit for many years and now have a Jotunheim 2 (unfortunately never had them at the same time). First things first, the Jot 2 is really impressive and sounds wonderful and powerful with the HE6se.

    Regarding the DACs, I had moved from the Modi Multibit to the much more expensive Topping D70s a little over a year ago, but the differences between those dacs are night and day. Imaging, soundstage, clarity all much improved with the D70s - honestly the differences were alarmingly pronounced and much greater than I had anticipated. I think you might find that the ESS DAC card itself with the Jot 2 is a lot cleaner, wider, with better imaging than the multibit. With that said, there's certainly is an allure to the multibit sound, just not my preference these days.

    If you're considering getting the ESS dac with the Jot 2, you might want to look into something like a Topping D50s that works with a slightly higher end ESS chip (2 of them actually!) and can be found used for about the same price. Just something to think about though. For $100, getting the ESS card with the Jot 2 gives you an affordable and capable all-in-one should you ever need it, but I think you might be able to find better standalone DAC's out there in the $100-$200 price range.
     
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  6. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Hard disagree, both the original D50 and D70 sounded like ass. I'm sure the D50s still sounds like ass. Only the D70s I've read rather positive things about but overall I would not recommend the Topping brand DACs, why take the risk?
     
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  7. Huhnkopf

    Huhnkopf Friend

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    The OverAccentuatedEtchyScratchyMacroDetailForwardInYourFacepushing "trick" has gotten old for many now, no need to sell Topping's variant as something superior or even remotely good.
     
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  8. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    Lol y'all haven't even heard the topping d70s. Save opinions for things you've actually heard lmao. The d70s is exceptional. D50s is great too. Much better than any schiit dacs I've heard. I haven't tried many r2r dacs though, so can't comment there. I can say, however, that the d70s is light-years ahead of the modi multibit after having actually listened to both side by side (to my ears at least). Is there like an anti-Topping agenda at SBAF or something?
     
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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2022
  9. Huhnkopf

    Huhnkopf Friend

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    No, we just don't like people who don't like music.
     
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  10. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    Ah, good one man. In that case I'll assume one person had a negative thing to say about Topping and y'all jumped on the bandwagon.
     
  11. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    If you did even the bare minimum of 5min of searches you would have found several threads. But at this point it's obvious you come from some zero effort other audio forum or Facebook. If you can't at least read up on what's been said here before to know some of the members and opions you might as well crawl back to where you come from. Thanks.

    And sure, the D70s might be half decent. But as I politely tried to convey before, why take the risk when there are many tried and trusted solutions like Schiit Modius, just to give an example. Also, this is a HE6 thread. Good job shitting it up.
     
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  12. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    From the asshat who's never heard a dac, but tries to pass someone else's opinions off as his own, it's a pretty pathetic way to pretend you have a valid opinion. If this forum is a bunch of jerks like you who think you know everything about gear you've never heard, I'd prefer to keep away lmao.

    Dude posted about specific gear and I tried to have a conversation with him based on my own personal experiences with that gear. Then comes your "polite" comment saying how 2 dacs are compete shit, but oops you've never actually heard them before. Get a life bro.

    Edit: I said a mean word
     
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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2022
  13. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Although I doubt you'll listen to this, I'll give you a piece of advice to take with you on your online journey. This isn't an intelligent way to go about this. If you want people to understand your side of the argument, avoid resorting to ad hominem attacks and petty insults because they just make you look weak. I mean, at this point no one is interested in what you have to say since you refuse to do the bare minimum in having a thoughtful conversation. Even if you feel the other side is being "twat"-ish, be the bigger person and prove your value to the community you are trying to be part of (I'm assuming that's why you're here?). People respect that. If you're not interested in gaining that respect, keep trolling and eventually the ban hammer will solve everyone's problem.

    This forum is biased just like every forum is biased. You will not find a forum on the internet that isn't. It comes from the fact that people's time and finances are very limited, so they have to rely on the opinions of others who share their preferences, to steer them away from stuff they know will most certainly not align with their preferences. Topping has a certain sound that the vast majority of people on this forum don't like, whether it's from direct experience or secondhand. This doesn't mean you CAN'T like it, just don't expect others to have a high opinion of it. It's delusional. This happens on every forum... like minded people get together, preferences and biases get formed creating a sort of "hive mind" (every community has a hive mind), so outsiders should go in expecting this.

    If you're unable or unwilling to accept this, then you may want to reconsider your goals for joining this or any other community. Unless you can find one that is biased towards Topping, which in turn they will be biased against other things someone else like you will try to make them feel bad about.
     
  14. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    Thanks for your opinions, bud. I'll give you a piece of advice it seems like you need. This is the internet and opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. Just because someone reads Merv's post about gear doesn't mean his opinions are facts. This whole biased forum thing - it actually doesn't have to be like that. Toxic group-think communities that ostracize those who disagree with them create communities this this. Talk about weakness, seeing all three of you jump on this and pretend like nothing is wrong with an entire forum bashing a company because one dude didn't like them. I mean, forums like this and Amir's are like the CNN and FoxNews of hifi with idiots spouting off what they heard the pundits say as fact. I'm not a Topping fanboy by any means, I tried the A90 and it sucked, I tried the D70s and it rocked. Those are my opinions.

    Just because you've formed a hive mind about a product or brand, doesn't mean that everyone who peruses your forum has to agree. Some opinions have validity and some don't - the opinions that are taken from on one person's posts about a product that isn't even being referenced.... I'm gonna call it out whether you like it or not. I'll call out what I feel I need to call out and you do the same. My goal is to prevent some other person from reading through this forum and taking the hive mind's opinions for fact and your goal can be to live in your homogeneous internet society.
     
  15. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    This hyperbolic statement indicates you're approach to the situation is severely warped. The entire forum doesn't bash Topping. Most here don't like it, but many people don't comment, possibly because they enjoy some of their gear and keep that preference to themselves. It's like not bringing up politics at Thanksgiving dinner. Speaking of which....

    Your severe narcissism is telling. Morphing a situation about audio preference/bias into a comparison to CNN/Fox News culture wars is beyond the pale and indicates you probably have alot of unresolved anger issues centered around politics that you're projecting onto others.

    As I said, every forum on the internet has some form of hive mind, and it's extremely naive not to expect it. But that doesn't mean everyone thinks the same way, it just means a kind of general consensus about stuff forms. Even if that's true, you can still like what you like and contribute to the forum. We will listen to you if you appear thoughtful and respectful, but since you seem to have no interest in doing that, you are probably better off just going somewhere else.

    Or you can continue to embarrass yourself and chip away at what little self respect you have left. Trust me, when you leave, you will be forgotten and no one will care. So why prolong the inevitable?
     
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  16. urbanjanitor

    urbanjanitor New

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    My point is that many here have never tried the gear that they bash or even praise ;), as exemplified in what caused this tit for tat. If I'm in the wrong for calling that out in this forum, please ban me. Not sure if you know what narcissism means, but if using a metaphor to compare your forum (Ohana in this case, I guess) to mainstream media hits that deep, it probably rings truer that I had thought. Because I compared the groupthink here and folks passing off other people's opinions as fact to... omg how main stream media functions..... I have a lot of unresolved anger issues centered around politics? I know you're trying to hit me where it hurts, but try harder.

    I'm extremely naïve not to expect your forum functions as a hive mind... How about you have some self-respect and stop being profusely apologetic about the negative aspects of this forum and try to be more authentic. I'd be embarrassed not to respond to your weak attempts at bullying me out of here or something. Maybe you didn't like how I said it, but I feel justified in my comments knowing that I post about things I have experience with (like, you know, talking about gear I've actually heard) and would like to help others with. You are apparently here in a pathetic attempt at creating some kind of self-worth through upvotes. Good luck with that.
     
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  17. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    If you can find a used Schiit Mjolnir 1, I like how it livens up the 6se and adds punch without being fatiguing. I'm not into a punchy sound but I thought it was lacking too much with the 6se. I didn't think the Jotunheim 2 paired quite as well though it was also pretty good. It's worth noting my 6se is modded and is more neutral with better air than stock (and other improvements that I've forgotten). Modded or not, I found the 6se needs an amp that can wake it up.
     
  18. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Rewinding back a bit, I found this part was the tipping point where things got worse.

    I honestly think these are fair points, although @urbanjanitor might have put them in more elegant ways (more on this below).

    Let me declare several things first. I haven't heard D50S/70S. Zero motivation to try them out. I still had bad experience with some of their dacs (at various price points) and didn't get over yet. I also have very strong negative bias toward companies boasting stationary signal results (say, 1khz FFT regarding nf/harmonics) over what music listeners say.

    That said, the points I quoted above seem typical reactions found in those moving to latest D/S dacs from lower end R2R. I was not a big fan of modi multibit and at this price point, r2r benefits should be strongly aligned with users' preference. MM wasn't what average people can easily appreciate -- unlike higher end Bifrost 2 to me. TBH I don't think this is Modi-specific as I had similar complaints with some other r2r products -- Soekris 1321, Airist, etc.

    I may not fully agree with all the points above. For example, knowing what ESS dacs without thoughtful output stages sound like, it's hard for me to believe Topping dacs sounded night-day better in soundstage. But maybe possible as MM had quite ambiguous presentation in rendering things in 3d compared to what do this really better in ds (Matrix sabre pro, Crane Song Solaris, Gustard X26) among I tried out albeit different price ranges. So some chance there exists varying mileages if not very likely.

    It must be super great that you @urbanjanitor were willing to help others. But you should be aware of SBAF culture that we're concerned with false positives very much when it comes to statements affecting others. Back to the Modi Multibit case, I know several people here whose preference naturally like it over any other D/S dacs (even at higher price points). If you don't exactly know who you're trying to help, you should make statements very carefully (e.g., adding more contextual details) assuming multiple possible scenarios. At this point I don't think you had evil will to upsell certain manufacturers.. but the whole thing feels like a sad miscommunication.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2022
  19. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador

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    No anti topping agenda, just an anti bad equipment agenda, and unfortunately, most of the topping stuff people here have heard had been less than stellar. I'd take a Gungnir DS over a Topping D90SE every day of the week and twice on Sundays
     
  20. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    We already have an HE6SE thread. I moved all the HE6SE posts there. The rest of this can die.

    FWIW, if someone listened to a D70s and loved it and wrote a well informed, educated, descriptive review of why they liked it, I don't think anyone here would have a problem with that. the dislikes come from praising Topping gear with very little experience of other DACs and using words like "good" or "better". You could replace the Topping fan's posts with "bicycle" instead of "D70s" and they would read just fine.
     
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