EC Aficionado (was: The Studio Jr.)

Discussion in 'Eddie Current' started by AppleheadMay, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

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    So what you are saying is I need to buy some burner toobz for this process. There is no way I am going to use the RCA's I just overpayed for...

    I am glad you jumped on and clarified. For whatever reason, I had assumed the opposite, that you were looking looking more for Studio-like presentation, most likely due to this project at one time being called the Studio Jr and doing dummy brain arithmetic.

    So, takeaways:
    1) My assumptions are crap. Zero for two in this thread alone.
    2) I am going to give the .1 Jupiters a go as they seem to match what I am looking for from this amp.
     
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  2. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    I've lost track of where we stand on which cap is the one to get. It sounds like Duelands are in the lead, marginally.
     
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  3. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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    Basically if I'm reading this correctly it's a matter of taste:

    Code:
    Studio <-----------------------------> Wet
    Audiocap ------- .1 Jupiter -- .22 Jupiter
     
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  4. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

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    Tubes just arrived. The excitement builds.
    [​IMG]

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't NEED a socket saver for the WE396a, correct? It is only if I plan on tube rolling?
     
  5. jexby

    jexby has Michigan envy - Friend

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    indeed, no socker saver needed.
    only needed if you will be doing excessive rolling to the point of abusing the internal socket.
     
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  6. jexby

    jexby has Michigan envy - Friend

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    this isn't about caps or tubes or anti vibration pods.
    am looking for EC Af owners to report what headphones they have heard with Af that magically synergize to the point of eargasms.

    am not primarily interested in cans by Sennheiser, Focal, Mr Speakers, Fostex, Grado,
    as those are not in my personal sonic wheelhouse.
    yet certainly chime in explaining what (and how) such a magic pairing presents itself.

    Why am I asking?
    eventually the constricted Focal Utopia presentation/staging, along with a bit too-shy bass led me away from the pairing.
    Heard Clear + Af for a good while, and the obvious trade offs occurred.

    Looking forward to some alternative options. or maybe the perfect Af can is under development in China or Japan at the moment....
     
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  7. purr1n

    purr1n Loves Sex and Records

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    Probably should not tell you this, but ask Craig for the 300B edition of the Af with the magickal transformers. Deep growling bass, not particularly warmpoo, but full of body. It's like EC mated eith EAR. Magical with the Utes; but again constricted stage. Proper source might help, but not sure.
     
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  8. jexby

    jexby has Michigan envy - Friend

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    <trying to decide between a Like and a Dislike. brain lock>
     
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  9. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

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    wait, what?

    I swear @purr1n is just trolling us at this point.
     
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  10. Comzee

    Comzee Acquaintance

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    I might get banned or disliked a lot for this, but you know what's trolling? The stock caps and decision to leave off the tertiary transformer connection on the stock EC AF.

    This amp really has (had) potential. For anybody curious, the word on the street is that stock EC AF sucks, warmpoo, low resolution, low impact. I wouldn't know, just what I heard from multiple EC AF owners.

    I received mine yesterday, I'm going to be waiting awhile before writing a full review. I wanted to mention off the bat tho, that this amp absolutely requires different coupling caps. If I were Craig, I'd shelf the green cap (whatever brand they are), and start shipping stock EC AF with at least his personal favorite "Audiocap Theta" or go with Jupiter paper foil wax (not beeswax).

    Also, there should a statement in bold on the EC AF section of the website, letting people know the optional mod to connect the tertiary winding on the transforms. The transformers were literally spec'd and ordered for this, it was meant to be built like that, yet it wasn't, hmmmmm thinking.jpeg.... With how good the bass impact, dynamics, tightness is, I really don't even want to imagine what this amp is without that.

    Also people, invest in good tubes, don't buy a $3.5k amp and and wonder why new production or stock tubes make it sound worse than your Schiit amp.

    And @jexby ur probs getting trolled because:

    "am looking for EC Af owners to report what headphones they have heard with Af that magically synergize to the point of eargasms."

    fallowed by

    "am not primarily interested in cans by Sennheiser, Focal, Mr Speakers, Fostex, Grado,"

    Like duh fuq, do you even want advice, immediately writing off tons of major brands with legendary headphones?
    What is there left for good dynamic headphones apart from those brands, not much, and not much area for anybody to give you advice.
     
  11. jexby

    jexby has Michigan envy - Friend

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    exactly, it's a hard question. not meant for Randos to dump the obvious/repeated options.
    SBAF dudez have the ability to bone up and tackle difficult issues.

    Have I heard every model headphone by those vendors with Af? nope.
    Do I want to? nope. because in past listening from non-Af amps, Grados suck, all Mr Speakers are below average or suck. Sennheisers don't thrill, Focal I've tried over and over.
    also note I said "primarily".
     
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  12. purr1n

    purr1n Loves Sex and Records

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    You won't get banned, but if you want to use that tone, I will bluntly retort that you don't know WTF you are talking about. It's not so simple.

    The only thing you are right about is that green cap. Long story there as I wanted the stock caps to be at least the Jantzen Superiors.

    More later.

    P.S. @jexby only wants to hear from level 78+ audiophiles. His difficult question was not intended for noobs.
     
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  13. purr1n

    purr1n Loves Sex and Records

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    LOL. True. Until we can guarantee OPT supply, it's vaporware. Obtaining OPTs in appropriate quantities has always been the hardest part.
     
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  14. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    I hope it turns out, but isn't the wait of Vaporware follow-ups like Duke Nukem!
     
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  15. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    So does that mean EC's version of Schiit's upgrade system is also vaporware at this point? ;-)
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Loves Sex and Records

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    OK. First all of, everything has been in explained in prior posts, although not in an easy to find way, so you are semi-excused for neglecting to read the design considerations. Yes, the teritiary winding of the Cinemag OPT was intended for feedback.

    The tertiary winding wasn't used for a good reason. Feedback results in less gain. And with the WE396A, we were concerned that there wasn't enough gain, even with high efficiency speakers. You need to keep in mind that the AF is primarily a speaker amp - the Speakon connectors in the back should make this obvious. You also have to consider that not all people run Yaggys or Gumbys with their hot outputs. Some people run TTs with MC carts, which even after 70+db of gain from their phonostages, still don't have much voltage output. The volume knob is already at 2-3 o'clock with my Ortofon Cadenza Bronze MC with the 6" Fostex BLHs. We didn't want to make an amp that only worked with my 115db horns.

    In hopes of getting more gain, we tried the 6SL7. Problem with the 6SL7 was the sky high plate impedance where we might have needed to double them. We tested this configuration and we just didn't like the sound - too soft and and mushy. In the end, we stuck with the WE396A without feedback, but added cathode bypass caps on the driver to tighten up the bass. All no feedback designs are always going to sound more rounded in the bass than those with feedback. Another consideration is during Af development, Craig also had on hand a BA and really liked the sound of the no feedback design. He had been so enamored with the Studio (which employed feedback with the tertiary winding) for a while that he had forgotten the sonic advantages of a no feedback design. This is a major reason why the name of the amp changed from Studio Jr. to the Af.

    All of the critcisms that you hear from owners on the street are legit, but what you have done is not put these criticisms in proper context (seriously, buy a fucking Amp&Sound or Woo instead, they do some things better, you won't hurt Craig or my feelings) and insisted that your approach (the use of feedback from the tertiary winding and no cathode bypass on drivers, etc.) is the BEST approach. It assure you that it is not. It is merely a DIFFERENT approach. You lose depth and liveliness with feedback, even with as little as 1db from the tertiary windings. You haven't AB'd these designs back and forth for days on end trying to make a decision like I have. FWIW, the bass impact isn't any greater with the feedback from the tertiary windings hooked up - and the dynamics are actually a little bit flatter. Personally I enjoy the Af almost as it is with only the employment an exotic interstage cap.

    I applaud you for doing your own due diligence and asking Craig to customize the Af that way that you wanted it, or you think you wanted it, because it's obvious you haven't AB'd the different versions. The fact is, if we had made the Af out the door with the way that you wanted it, people would have still criticized it. Maybe three times as many people for it sounding too lean and dry or flat.

    Finally, there is no outright statement on options on the website for the amp. There never will be. This keeps production simple, costs low, and order to delivery time fast. You have no idea how much Craig bitches to me when people want custom stuff. I saw your amp being built. I personallly inspected it. Now I wish I peed into it. I was extremely impressed that you went with a different approach from the stock, but I am upset at your tone and how you presented yourself, as if you knew everything, even if you had spoken to Craig and he shot the breeze with you. Keep in mind that Craig is old and has selective memory and confuses present and past events sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018 at 7:51 PM
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  17. jexby

    jexby has Michigan envy - Friend

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    would like an audit of the EC assembly line peeing matched with serial numbers please.
    merci.
     
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  18. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    I think the serial number starts with a P
     
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  19. purr1n

    purr1n Loves Sex and Records

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    Golden bottom plate.
     
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  20. Comzee

    Comzee Acquaintance

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    I chose to take the conversation into PMs, this is why there have been no reply's from me defending myself.
    I posted a PM to Marv before he even made that lengthy post, but he ignored and decided to stew up some drama, that's ok, it's your forum champ.

    Just want to let everybody know that not everyone shared the same opinion as Marv about the tertiary mod, I'll leave it at that.
     
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