Turntable advice

As setups get better, the crackle and popping gets reduced. There is more music and lesser noise. But it is a physical media and will not really be as quiet as digital.
It gets awfully close on great pressings though!

But vinyl has always been about the music. The human mind has a way to deal with analog crackle and pop...much less irritation than with digital pops!

Better cartridge stylus profiles can reduce the noise for MC carts. Also, some MM carts are exceptionally good at hiding surface noise as well.

 

It can depend on the pressing. My Music Matters pressings are dead quiet, but others less so. Also, like @shaizada said, different carts will produce less noise. My Ortofon 2M Black picked up a lot of noise, but the Denon/Zu 103 had significantly less.

That said, you do start to ignore it on bad pressing or with carts that pick up surface noise.

 

I agree about a decent turntable setup having far less noise (or noticeable noise) than a craptastic one. I also think it's stunning to hear even just one track without any of the noise distractions... This is how I originally got interested beyond just looking myself.

I was browsing some brick and morter stores and asked some old cranky snobby analog asshole if I could audition one of the expensive setups. He put on some Pink Floyd and promptly left, so it was just me and the music. No hisses, pops or other distractions, just a hugely deep, involving soundstage that gushed emotion. Instead of two speakers, it sounded like at least six were in play.

Anyway, there are many comparisons online discouraging from vinyl, but my own experience is that analog can just sound so realistic. I recently received Andrew Birds new album, and couldn't get over the sound of the electric guitar and violin together. Sunday morning, I woke up early, laying in bed thinking about it. Eventually I got up and put it on again, just so it would be the first thing I heard... I was addicted to hearing just how pure it sounded.

For me, it's along the same lines as discovering how tubes change the presentation of music, but also different in a way I don't think digital can touch. The MC cart really seems to bring about changes I don't think I'll ever hear digitally.

 

I've also found that properly cleaning, drying, and using my anti-static gun help a lot with crackle/pops…that being said some pressings just seem to be worse than others regardless of what I do.

 

Anything that sits on top of the platter has a DIRECT effect on what the cartridge will sound like. It changes the sound quite drastically and if it is not the right synergistic blend of materials, could make the sound worse

Good to experiment and it is very educational. At the same time, there is a "sound" that a turntable manufacturer/designer is going for. I like to keep that "sound" intact and play around with other variables to get the sound I hear in my "mind".

Unless, there is a commonly KNOWN upgrade path....keyword is upgrade, best to keep the designer's table sound intact. Just my opinion.

Now, you might be trying to achieve something else, so experimentation (like you are planning) is in order. Yet, it could be money spent elsewhere for definite sonic upgrade

By the way, how are things coming along with your vinyl world now? I hope it is all you expected and much more!

 

Just want to post some thoughts and impressions in my personal quest to have a nice analog rig... Sorry for the long winded paragraphs.

Started with the Audio Technica LP-120 which was recommended to me by a local store in Calgary. I paid around $350 and it came with the AT95e cart, and a built in phono stage.
It sounded muddy, warm and not really great. I believe the cartridge is a good valve proposition if someone is looking for a cheap, warmer sounding cartridge. Some improvements were made pulling the phono stage circuitry and using a TC-750. Overall, I wouldn't really recommend this table, unless you can snag one for $100 or less.

Upgraded to a Pro-Ject 2Xperience with an acryl plinth, and Ortofon 2m Bronze MM cartridge. This was a much better upgrade. The table has noise from the motor, but the bronze has a very nice presentation. Definitely not as much warmth or perceived mush as the LP-120. I put some the table on a bamboo platter, along with tiny pieces of bamboo under the legs, which also seemed to improve the sound.

Putting the Denon DL-103R MC cart on the Pro-Ject table was also a huge upgrade, for a relatively small cost around $250. The phono stage was also upgraded to the $800 or so RSA Nighthawk. These two things were without a doubt the biggest improvement to my analog rig. It made me basically stop using Gungnir Multibit.

Finally, just upgraded to a VPI Classic 2 Companion table, which to me made a big improvement to overall clarity and depth of resolution. This reminds me of comparing Gungnir Multibit to Yggdrasil... I am hearing insane details that I've never heard in my music, but only on my headphones- my speaker set up basically sounds the same with the VPI. My girlfriend was disappointed it sounded quite similar to the Pro-Ject, until I had her listen through the 650's. "Oh there are two people singing here??" Also, moments where the music continues playing where there was perceived silence before. Also, better dynamics and blackground.

So that is my analog journey in the last few years. I plan on trying to get my speakers to a more resolving place, and I believe the Yamaha AS500 amp I'm using is now the choke point. For now, I am very happy for all the advice from this forum and appreciate all the help! Thanks everyone.

 

@Mikoss hit the nail on the head, as I have followed a similar path.

I may not be able to articulate what I hear as well as many folks here, but I have been amazed at the progression of my own vinyl journey, and the level of detail that has been revealed along the way.

I have a few vinyl rips of the same song from each of the major steps I have taken. First it was the Project Carbon with Ortofon 2M blue and modded TC750, then it was the VPI Classic 1 with Paradox Denon DL-103 and TC750, then finally the TC750 was replaced with my own RSA Nighthawk.

The Project and Ortofon rips sounds thin and slightly sibilant compared to the VPI versions. I originally thought a thinner sound was associated with more detail. Boy was I wrong, the VPI rips sound fuller and warmer, but with a much greater level of detail.

The Nighthawk added an amazing level of background blackness, that let me hear the start of song before it actually begins(after I drop the needle I think it's picking up the next groove over as it runs into the music... If that makes any sense). Also the rips are slightly longer because I can faintly hear the music for longer before it completely fades out. I hear the lead singer and the background vocalists where I previously heard one single vocal. Reverb and decay are now breath-taking and float eerily into silence, before the amazingly fast attack starts things up again.

All this is through my various headphones. My speaker set up is not ideal, I don't have the room to properly place them. In a year's time I will have the space to start developing a solid 2 channel set up, and my journey will be getting more exciting.

Thanks for all the help and recommendations fellas

 

Well, my father wants his d202 back. I guess me getting into vinyl has got him back into it as well, haha.

I can get a Denon dp-300f for about $170. Is that a pretty good table, particularly compared to the Technics d202?

 

What speakers do you have?

 

@Mikoss, from what I'm reading, you might also want to treat your room, that might not cost as much, and the returns are immediate. That table is pretty good already, as your 650s show.

 

PMC Twenty.21 bookshelf on mass loaded stands

I've also considered room treatments. Just renting this townhouse for the year and if we do buy a place, it's something I'd definitely be doing. I wouldn't mind doing some treatments now that don't need to be mounted to the walls as well!

 

Ok y'all, my dad has finally got his basement in order and most of us kids out of the house and he's ready to get back into vinyl.
I have a table (Pioneer PL-510A) that I used in my college days. It's solid enough and I'm giving it to him. Not a piece of junk but not heavy duty either. I'm spoiled by my SL 1200's heavy chassis.

He wants me to keep costs reasonable (definitely <$250, preferably more like $200).

My plans are:

• Ortofon 2M Red ($100)
• Technics headshell ($20)
• TCC 750 (~$50)
• Turntable mat (wtf, KAB discontinued the Technics mats :-/ what else is good, thick and reasonably priced? this table has a super "ping"-y platter)

So, help on the mat would be appreciated. Or if you have any ideas for other configurations, holler. But, please remember: he doesn't want to tweak stuff. He wants to be able to turn it on and listen, period. I'm going to do cartridge setup and all that for him. So no exposed Sola power supply, no caseless monsters.

 

A lot of my LPs have a slight lift to them (even the new ones). Would a record clamp help? What's a decent one at a fair price? Thanks!

 

I would think a Herbie's mat would work well here. I've tried felt, cork and the Herbie's and it is my favorite.

A lot of my records are like that. For me, it seems to help with tracking more than anything else. I can't think of a specific one, but I've noticed you can spend as much or as little as you want for one. Can I recommend sites to shop for this sort of thing, or is that against policy? If it is just pm me.

 

Most records are slightly warped. Weights or clamps alleviate this problem. The canadian record clamp is a hole drilled through a hockey puck (also works for lifting trucks). Pro-ject's record weight is more or less a molded hockey puck that goes for $50 or so. I bought a used Michell Engineering record clamp from JK47. I think they go for $100 or so new. Without going off the deep end this isnt a bad place to start. Check out Sound Stage Direct. They have decent prices and selection.

 

I have no experience with TTs, in fact, I don't believe I've ever used one. I've been interested in getting one though and came across one that a coworker is willing to sell. It's a Realistic Lab 440 that has been used less than a dozen times (not sure if that's a good or bad thing). I guess I'm wondering, at $50, is it a decent starter TT assuming it's in good condition? I'm currently cramming any, and all info, I can find on them. I'll be using my current headphone setup (MHdt Atlantis->Sys->Emotiva XPA2->HE-6). Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/realistic-lab-440-tell-me-about-it.184588/