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Lynx PCIe AES interfaces: AES16 and E22

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Sep 8, 2016.

Page 9 of 27
  1. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    That would be seriously awesome absolute overkill :).
     
    GoodEnoughGear, Sep 15, 2016
    #161
  2. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Just FYI - we tried that transformer at @drfindley 's out of my E22 and compared that to using the Mutec for interface conversion. The transformer did have a negative sound quality effect in his system. FWIW.
     
    bazelio, Sep 15, 2016
    #162
  3. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    Get the Canare bcj-xj-a10tra

    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

    XLR to BNC with 10dB attenuation.
     
    Clemmaster, Sep 15, 2016
    #163
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Of course! But this comparison isn't apples-to-apples. You are comparing a $10-25 adapter (transformer) to a $1000 switcher/reclocker/master clock/clock syncer. The Mutec does it job well for digital to digital. I didn't happen to have a good experience with the Mutec from the Theta Data III because the Data III didn't need it, with its rare combination of both natural and focused sound, the Mutec didn't help. Sometimes the reclocker stuff is too much of a good thing - for example, I never cared for the Off Ramp 5 with the turbo clock "upgrades". Some other people at Changstar had similar experiences with like chains when adding an extra PPA USB card or Wyrd into the chain.

    I can see the Lynx bring improved by the Mutec because the Lynx was still a little bit smeared sounding compared to the Marantz CD transport, which in turn was behind the Data III. In retrospect, I should have tried the Mutec from the CD Marantz. The Mutec seems to be effective for a final reclock of digital to digital signals. However, I sure as hell wouldn't recommend it to most people as an add-on to the Lynx unless they wanted that last 1-2%. If I had money to burn, I'd rather pick up a nice fretless bass guitar so I can play along with my daughter who is taking guitar lessons.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
    purr1n, Sep 15, 2016
    #164
  5. Vent

    Vent Friend

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    My two cents.

    My Lynx AES16e arrived. Installation was very easy, though the mixer was a bit bewildering at first.

    I'm very new to this hobby but I didn't find an appreciable difference between USB and the Lynx during initial listening last night. I was able to swap back and forth pretty quickly using Zones on JRMC and the input selector on the front of the Gungnir Multibit. My chain is:

    - On the Lynx: JRMC ASIO -> Lynx AES16e -> snake cable -> transformer -> Blue Jeans BNC cable -> Gungnir Multibit -> XLR -> Mjolnir 2 with LISST -> balanced cable -> HD650 with SBAF mods
    - On USB: JRMC WASAPI -> Wyrd -> Gungnir Multibit, etc.

    It could be that with more time and more critical listening I'll be able to hear what others here are talking about. It could also be that I've messed a configuration up somewhere. But if there are other newer or less critical listeners here, you should not necessarily expect to plug everything in and immediately be blown away by obvious and apparent differences over your previous setup.

    Keep in mind all the costs: $695 for the card, $60 for the snake cable, $10+ for a BNC cable.

    All the normal caveats apply and I'm just adding another point of reference, etc. etc.
     
    Vent, Sep 15, 2016
    #165
  6. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Haha, yeah. I'm not suggesting Mutec as a recommended component for SQ purposes by any means. Just providing some subjective info. Many folks are using Mutec not necessarily for interface conversion but for USB decrapification. So if that's the case and one obtains a Lynx board, then selling Mutec might be a consideration. But if the alternative is to use a $20 adapter, then giving a listen to both is worthwhile IMO from what I've heard. I heard smearing also, and I'm not sure if the $20 adapter caused the smearing or if the Lynx was smeared and Mutec fixed it. I tend to think it's the former, because I don't hear smearing with AES direct in to Yggdrasil. Also, the question might come up of using Mutec as a final reclocking device for pure SQ enhancement as @Marvey mentions. There, I'm a little skeptical. If I can go AES direct from Lynx into Yggdrasil, then intuitively I see no reason for the Mutec PLL to be more accurate than the E22 PLL. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If I really care, then I might instead be tempted to find a used word clock (like @RKML0007 uses) and feed that in to the Lynx card since it does accept an external clock source. Mutec, by my thinking, really should not offer any SQ advantage in that scenario. Curious on how others might think about it, too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
    bazelio, Sep 15, 2016
    #166
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    AES > BNC/SPDIF. I don't think you can arrive that the transformer caused smearing when ultimately it's a lesser transmission method. That can go into a whole 'nother can of worms because an AES to BNC impedance adapter can also be made with a resistor network. Also, you can do weird ass crap like remove the transformers at the digital sender and receiver boards, and replace with caps.

    Curious, how was (Lynx -> AES -> Yggdrasil) vs. (Lynx -> AES -> Mutec -> Yggdrasil). That's really the important question. I already know that in that every instance I've tried, AES > BNC SPDIF.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
    purr1n, Sep 15, 2016
    #167
  8. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    The MC3+ is a word clock so you could use it to clock the Lynx. Do a little A/B with and without Mutec as the master clock.
     
    Chris F, Sep 15, 2016
    #168
  9. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Yes, that is the important question and I've been asking @RKML0007 if he's tried. I won't speak for him, but I think he felt adding Mutec in a AES in / AES out configuration with Rednet added some focus, but that things weren't terribly unfocused previously. At Adam's we used Gungnir Multibit and DACute, both of which required AES to BNC conversion, and the Mutec was far superior there. So I still want/need to hear Mutec out of E22 to Yggdrasil for myself. Maybe when you come up we can do it.

    EDIT: We tried getting BNC out of E22 working so we could go direct to both DACs from E22... but that didn't work for some reason. No music.
     
    bazelio, Sep 15, 2016
    #169
  10. contrapton

    contrapton New

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    Are you using USB from a laptop, desktop mobo, PCIe card, ...?
     
    contrapton, Sep 15, 2016
    #170
  11. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    Agree on this. It's not what I'd use for USB, but for reclocking? yes.
     
    drfindley, Sep 15, 2016
    #171
  12. Vent

    Vent Friend

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    Desktop built within the last couple of years. USB was coming from the motherboard to the Wyrd over a no frills USB cable.
     
    Vent, Sep 15, 2016
    #172
  13. contrapton

    contrapton New

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    I would be very interested in a comparison between Lynx > transformer > Gungnir Multibit versus straight USB > Yggdrasil considering these two setups are almost equal in price. I don't think I've seen anyone compare them head-to-head yet.
     
    contrapton, Sep 15, 2016
    #173
  14. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    If Yggdrasil had Word Clock I/O it would be even better :bow:
     
    OJneg, Sep 15, 2016
    #174
  15. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    True. I don't have a Mutec myself. If I had one, I'd have tried already. And taking the thought a bit further, if reclocking is beneficial (and there seems to be evidence that it is), then it would seem more intuitive to clock the E22 from an OCX which is definitely the more accurate reference clock of either Mutec or E22. And then you could still go direct from E22 to Yggdrasil as well as benefit from a more accurate clock than Mutec's.

    Oh and BTW, Adam and I tried to clock the E22 from his Mutec MC-3+USB.... we also couldn't get it working in about 30 seconds so moved on. There's something about BNC that isn't working yet on my Lynx despite having futzed with jumper settings as per the User Manual.
     
    bazelio, Sep 15, 2016
    #175
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Now you are thinking like a smart man! I would be interested in this too.
     
    purr1n, Sep 15, 2016
    #176
  17. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I think at the point of good source -> Gungnir Multibit vs USB -> Yggdrasil, it's more about personal tastes than which is necessarily better. I mean, Yggdrasil is always going to have some advantages no matter what, but some of the more euphonic things in Gungnir Multibit with a good source might still win some over.
     
    Hands, Sep 15, 2016
    #177
  18. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    The AES input on the Yggdrasil gives you the most bass vs any other inputs.
     
    Madaboutaudio, Sep 15, 2016
    #178
  19. badf00d

    badf00d Friend

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    Thanks for sharing what you guys have discovered. A Lynx E22 and an OCX are headed my way next week. I'll be hooking this up to my Gungnir Multibit.
     
    badf00d, Sep 16, 2016
    #179
  20. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
    Mr.Sneis, Sep 19, 2016
    #180
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