Jude E-peens Tyll and Gaslights Us with Alternative Facts

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by Panohm, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    That may be the case but as for selling MDR-Z1R who can blame him? For MDR-Z1R 2017 looks pretty much like 2007 in real estate. You do not want to be too late. It would not be actually a good story is the resale price of MDR-Z1R goes down a lot after Tyll's review and the entire controversy. I actually tried Z1R once in the store and I thought it was pretty nice for a closed can. But nothing more than that.
     
  2. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    I can see it coming. Price comes way down. Bill-P gets a hold of one, and the modding begins! :D
     
  3. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    This is golden, really:

    "Most significantly, the MDR-Z1R was developed in collaboration with one of the top mastering engineers at Sony Music Battery Studios, who benchmarked its overall performance in comparison with his super high-end reference speakers."

    Mark Wilder (top engineer of Sony Music Battery Studios) responses (September, 1, 2016 )

    https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/t...ive-from-ifa-2016.818846/page-4#post-12831022

    "I'm actually quite excited about these headphones as are the engineers, producers and artists that I've auditioned them for.

    For clarification, my system is Duntech Princess with Krell FBP300 amps in a Walters-Storyk designed room. This system is hardly bright. I doubt you have ever been in this room listening to music because if you have, this would not be your comment.

    We have many different manufacturers and models of headphones at Battery and use them all. Including Stax. Please do the comparison for yourself, I think you will be impressed.

    I feel you should give the Z1R's an audition before making comments like this. What went into the design is very impressive to me and my participation was only a small part of the overall finished product."


    https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/t...ive-from-ifa-2016.818846/page-5#post-12831079

    "In the tuning sessions, we worked hard to make the Z1R's a exceptional musical experience.
    I'm mastering a live jazz album right now and the producer and engineer are fighting over the Z1R's because they feel the depth is more impressive than my monitoring system. The engineer uses the 1A's and I have the 1R's, 1A's and Z7's here as well. They listened to them all and have been on the Z1R's for the past 3 hours. I'm the only one listening on speakers right now."


    Kinda surprising that a top notch sound engineer doesn't know how to "tune" a headphone to sound accurate.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Of course SBAF has influence! At heart, SBAF and HF are members of a larger shared community.

    The reason why there appears to be two different and separate communities is because of Jude. In the early days, when relations were better, all members of CS were also ACTIVE members of HF. I got ticked off at Arnaud once and told him off on CS and HF in way that I probably shouldn't have; and the next thing I know I get this e-mail from Jude saying what a nice person Arnaud was, waiting in the rain for 17 hours at the train station to greet Jude, followed by an insane your "f'ing" this, your "f'ing" that. Jude totally went apeshit on me.

    I deleted the message immediately upon feeling his pent up rage. You know, sort of like hanging up the phone with someone who has gone bonkers on you. That incident made more sense years later when people told me of how Jude would go off me for HOURS at a time on how I was trying to destroy him. We are talking about several different people. Like more than four five. I really can't say who they are because I don't want to get them into trouble. We are talking SPECTRE Christopher Waltz Bond Villain personality. Totally pathological, and when things don't go according to plan, he goes totally apeshit, because 007 has once again ruined his evil machinations.

    Anyway, point is, deep down inside, we are all still Head-Fi'ers. Not the brand, but you guys know what I am talking about. Our sentiments are heard and even shared at HF by many (they mostly keep quiet). The divide is really an artificial one created by Jude. His policies makes direct communication and bridging differences that much more difficult. The fact that Jude and OutragedJeff (or whatever that guy's handle) read this thread (and SBAF) vociferously, and some of us are keeping up with the thread at HF, show that we are not truly divided. Divided with opinions sure, divided as enthusiasts, no.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  5. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    Well said. Glad you didn't blow my cover. Oops !

    EDIT: in a more serious vein, I remember my first Chang meet. There where more HF folks than CS. No divisiveness at all. In fact a lot of people were on both forums. It was a great weekend. I met a lot of awesome, kind and knowledgeable people. Then this, whatever it is started. Really sad in so many ways. But, even at Wikia, which ended up for me being weird at the end, there was a common interest in the hobby, and a commitment to advancing it. A shared community. We all are seeking the holy grail of headphones sounding like speakers. May never happen, but it's the journey that ties us together.

    I am hopeful this, I don't have a word to describe it , will end someday. Too much conflict in the world without audiophiles/hi-fi folks starting to take up camps. I mean if this keeps up, I fear a fist fight at CanJam over the FR of a headphone.

    Now back to our regular programming .
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  6. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Note that he used "musical" and not "accurate". :) Or how he later talked about depth of the Z1R and...nothing else about it. Wait...headphone depth?

    They must have a really shitty sounding studio! (Does anyone have experience with those speakers to comment?) Either that or they have shit hearing and think everything sounds awesome.

    But he also says his involvement in the Z1R was minimal in terms of the final product...so...do they sound like the studio or not?

    And they use a large variety of headphones in the studio? All of them? I later go down and see the MDR-1R mentioned, which is FAAAR from reference sounding in almost every possible way imaginable (and was specifically tuned with a 100Hz boost, as I recall, among it having other "musical" aspects to the sound). From what I've read from reputable folks, the 1A wasn't a revelation either.

    This sounds like a product plug! The guy works with Sony, ooohh, and all these other people like them, so, yeah, buy them! So goooood!
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Gotta love Amos' comment (allow me to paraphrase):
    1. Tyll shouldn't have called them bad because so many HF'ers love them.
    2. They were too shitty in certain ways for me to buy them
     
  8. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    That's pretty much what he said in his Youtube review. And pretty much spot on agreed with Tyll in his evaluation.

    Amos pretty much called them shitty, in a more round about sort of way.
     
  9. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Optimistically shitty...


    ...maybe the tour Z1R should be sold off somewhere else but here. All we've been doing is trashing it to the point where nobody will pay more then Z7 prices for the thing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  10. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    I don't have Duntech speakers, but I do have Dunlavy IVa's, which were both designed by John Dunlavy. The IVa's have also been popular in mixing studios. In no way are they tuned anything like the description of this headphone. I have two friends that are involved in mastering/mixing. They both prefer a can that is boosted in the bass, recessed midrange and a little hot treble. For monitor they prefer neutral with as low a bass boast as possible. Sound familiar?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  11. deafdoorknob

    deafdoorknob Almost "Made"

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    for better or worse, modern J-Fi in general is more about the ultimate expression of certain type(s) of colouration(s) (dependent on brand/designers' preferences) as opposed to fidelity to the source or reality. That, along with a savant-like fixation on gimmicky techs and the "artisanal spirit" makes them closer to Grado in practice than their forebears.

    if you read japanese audio mags, the emphasis is often on recreating "the ultimate JBL sound" or "moar Tannoy than Tannoy" and not the simulacra of live performances per se.
     
  12. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Whatever sells man. It's Jude's word-of-mouth add space.

    It's OK. If you were bamboozled into buying some random kilobuck one-of-a-kind-colouration shit-cans you can always wax lyric on Head-Fi for 2 days about how you creamed all over your bedroom, and sell them because your neighbor's grandma's sister's nice's daughter's got the flu and you need the funds to save her.
     
  13. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    I can list it on Head Fi... not banned there just yet, and I've got a decent bit of feedback just shoot me which ever payPal it needs to be paid into

    but honestly after this whole debacle I can't really say I'm enjoying my time on HF any more... don't really feel like a member of the community there, but a commodity that Jude's trying to sell... but then again the hell if I'm going to let Jude's choices ruin my enjoyment in this hobby,
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  14. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    Same reason people in Japan fanatically follow Zippo lighters and Harley Davidson. It's because these machines are not perfect, thgey're almost like a living creature with imperfections, not because they're American.

    My friend in Japan is 3 generations deep into riding Harley's (Japan has a long relationship with supplying Harley with parts, pre-WWII and even until today), and collecting Zippo's. My friend and his family are not uber rich or well off, but their passion is riding, day in and day out.
     
  15. deafdoorknob

    deafdoorknob Almost "Made"

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    This sort of relate to the the overall worldview, that objects are seen having the same qualities/meaning as living things.

    http://metese-blog.pj.aist.go.jp/index.php/2016/02/25/why-do-the-japanese-like-robots/

    and for those not already sick and tired of the Z1Rs... (posted this on HF a while back)

    http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/topic/1029839.html
     
  16. chopstix

    chopstix Canali at HF (keeping him close)

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    you both sound like f'ing dickheads for your lack of compassion, to be frank.
    to both marvey and dig me: wow per your comment on that guy on HF having to sell his gear
    and you're glib and gloating about it... you seriously sound like juvenile douchbags...the guy's a single parent who's income
    was reduced as he had to attend more to her his sweetheart is special needs.
    i don't know about you assholes but i was raised by a single parent and know firsthand how tough it can be.
    and you get your little love in by dissing this guy...shows you really what this site is made up of.
    f**k you all who thought this was cool and for not having compassion.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    My main beef with Sony is that they weren't creative enough with their "beautiful" sound approach for the Z1R. A lot of bass, an accidental narrow upper treble spike, a sprinkle of zing. Lame. Any kid could have sculpted that response. The cup design and controlled internal reverb was a nice touch, but the Z1R lacked a weird sort of eff'd up mid-range to take full advantage of that. Finally, I think a more peaky approach in the bass, rather than a simple bass shelf lift would have been a more definitive touch. The zing can stay.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm just not part of the Facebook generation that believes in garnering public sympathy, particularly by people who make bad decisions in life and then unashamedly advertise to strangers on the Internet how dumb they are not like paying taxes ASAP and spending $2300 on stupid headphones instead of saving up for expenses for taking care of an kid with special needs. (EDIT: As I skim posts, I was unaware of the exact condition, someone informed me so I could make a suitable correction).

    Who's the real dickhead here? Trust me, any parent here on SBAF would be horrified at this level of parental irresponsibility and selfishness - this living in the moment shit.

    I've said time and time again to people here on SBAF: Do not participate in this hobby if you are not of sound mind and sound finances. This hobby will DESTROY YOU if you don't have your shit together. As a rando, you just don't hear about this stuff, but quite a few former members have already self imploded because of this hobby. Being central to this forum, I hear about ALL of it. It's extremely sad and hard to hold in all of it.

    What you are suggesting is idiot compassion. Once you grow a little bit older and wiser, you learn that idiot compassion is not true compassion.

    If I were him, I'd sell all that shit and be happy with a Schiit Fulla 2 or Douk Nobsound DSD and a TH-X00 and eat ramen noodles. Been there before. I can eat bitter and have eaten bitter. There is stuff so personally painful that even close friends here don't know about it. Randos on the Internet don't have a monopoly on suffering.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    The f'ing dickheads are strongly recommending against buying a Z1R. Specially to a single parent with reduced income and a little one.

    Don't buy overpriced shit-cans like that. Focus on the little girl. Family comes always first.

    (Also avoid HF. It's not always a good influence for a guy in a situation as described above.)
     
  20. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    yah, the dude had a life altering financial crisis within 6 hours of his postings/critical-need to sell these amazing cans and we're supposed to give him a hug for waking the F up and not fiscally planning ahead.
    Darwin for the win is my book.

    btw,
    [​IMG]
     

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