Cheap PC card SPDIF out vs spending $$$ on fixing USB out

With all the discussion about USB defuckification and USB -> SPDIF converters, I finally decided to try using the SPDIF out from my cheap ($91) Sound Blaster Z (SBZ) PCIe card. To my surprise, SBZ SPDIF -> Bifrost Multibit sounds better than USB -> Bifrost Multibit.

Makes me wonder if USB -> expensive SPDIF converter -> Bifrost Multibit would sound better than SBZ SPDIF -> Bifrost Multibit. Has anyone here done that comparison?

 

I have been using my mobo's spdif out (actually ttl output from mobo pins to AES) for past few years. Recently, I got a good deal on Musical fidelity V-link 192 USB to spdif/AES converter and decided to try it.

I have spent past couple of days trying to compare them.Initial impressions are that the V-link probably has slightly better soundstage and separation but it sounds a bit dry, lacks a bit on dynamics and is a tad flat sounding overall.Soundwise, I think I would prefer the mobo out overall but the usb converter gives me an option to use the dac with other sources instead of just being tethered to my desktop so I just might hang to it.

 

If I'm going to have an attack of audiophilia, then one of my tenets would be: the fewer stages the better.

Like using two short cables instead of one long one: whether we can actually detect a difference is nothing to do with it, it is still something that, in principle, we just don't like doing.

on that basis, if I want s/pdif I would prefer to leave out the USB stuff completely and just go s/pdif. Extension leads, not good; conversion, not good. Can't hear the difference anyway... well, probably not, but still...

 

On that point, I suppose motherboard -> PCIe sound card -> SPDIF -> DAC is more stages than just motherboard SPDIF -> DAC.

My motherboard has its own SPDIF out, but I haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

 

As far as stages go an on-board soundcard is effectively the same as an add-on soundcard. Both hang off of a pci-e Lane. One has a physical interface and the other is close to the onboard vrm for the cpu. Whether it makes any difference or not I'd choose an addon board every time. Usually on board sound is an after thought.

 

I have been struggling with this same issue for a while now. I keep debating getting a Paul Pang v3 usb card and perhaps one or two or three of the various usb defunktifiers. In the end, I think that all of these are just band aids. Right now I am now using a Pi3 and Digi+ with good initial results. I am not sure if the quality sound is due to not using usb from my pc mobo or if the Pi3 is just less noisy? Or there is some other reason.

As for usb to spdif converters I think the improvement has a lot to do with jitter reduction. I've owned the Musical Fidelity Vlink which I thought sounded good. I now use a Mutec 3+ to relock the spdif input from the Digi+ . The Mutec accepts usb, spdif (bnc) and aes (xlr).

OP, if you consider some sort of converter, try to find one with a good clock to reduce jitter.

 

I would have done a few years ago. Now I'm not so sure. I think I've learnt that the digital data is the digital data, and why should it be better from an added card. As you say, it is all coming from the PCI bus.

My main reason for using an add-in card in the past was two-fold...

1. When I started listening to music from a computer, the analogue alternative was awful.

2. All the other stuff you can do with a sound card, like... recording as well as playing.​

In fact, my initial reaction to DACs was that it was a silly idea, because they only did half the job.

I certainly would not buy, today, a sound card to give me the digital output I can get from the motherboard. However, if I was buying one as a general audio interface, it would probably become my audio "control centre" and then I might use its digital output.

 

Well I'm no expert when it comes to digital either. But motherboards either have optical or coax and these are not the best interfaces.
Coax is susceptible to impedance mismatches and optical usually introduces quite a bit of jitter since it adds 2 extra conversions when compared to coax. I think those vrm's throw out quite a bit of rfi/EMI and since a digital signal is still made up out of analog voltage pulses I don't what that does near a spdif connection. Probably causes even more jitter too.

But even if I'm wrong or overstating things and those interfaces work fine i would still choose a good card with aes or bnc or a good usb bridge just for peace of mind.

 

I believe (I'm afraid it is a matter of... faith!) that you worry too much about jitter.

I've never used coax s/pdif. I used toslink a decade ago with my ancient RME card. The only problem I ever perceived (and it was very perceptible, I thought I must have broken the fibre) was caused by accidentally putting too much bend in the fibre. I used it again more recently, when auditioning a DAC, just because I wanted to try an alternative to USB, and it was available.

I take your point about the conversion, though. On the positive side, there is electrical isolation. One can buy even an optical USB connector, should one need USB with isolation. Archimago tests it out on his blog, and iirc, it solved a problem for him.

The idea of pro gear always appeals to me, but if one is going to go for the pro stuff, then that's fine if its ok with the destination box.

Another piece of dogma that I carry around with my audio luggage is that RCA connectors are just an accident of history. Yes, I've read that the connectors make having the right impedence end-to-end effectively impossible, because they almost certainly do not match.

Wouldn't it be nice to have all balanced analogue connections, end-to-end, and all digital stuff to a proper, engineered pro standard! Nice... but not necessary.

Whoa! Never mind the audiophilia, it is a wonder that all this gear that we connect together works! But it does

 

I don't worry about jitter because i make sure i don't have to worry about it!

Well i tried optical enough times and it always sounds wrong to my ears, grainy, fuzzy and bit lack of detail compared to coax. If that's caused by jitter i don't know but nevertheless i avoid it if i can.

Like i said neither are optimal in my opinion. But sometimes you have to pick your poison.

Yeah that's why i love AES, balanced, isolated via a transformer and impedance matched. Also the fact i can run a couple of lengths around my house and still get a good signal is nice too. Not that i need it but i have run length's of 10 meters with it. Try that with optical or coax... yeah good luck with that

But a man's gotta have his toys though!

 

I finally have another ESI Juli@ XTe on the way after letting one go. It'll be feeding the Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB via S/P-DIF.