for a 17 year old, entry level DSLR with manual settings

Sorry if I was not clear enough.

Its the "WHY" i am after more. The "HOW" augments it. If you are always questioning the "HOW" and forgetting the "WHY"......chances are you will not be smiling anymore.

Its not an argument of "Chicken and Egg" also. It just like assuming you don't know/uncertain why you are here.

We are on the premise for an "elective" HS subject. If I choose an elective my understanding is that I like or Interested on that course. For this, IMO enjoyment and fun comes first. Learning and education comes in to augment the former.

We know degree of learning does not always equates difficulty. And being easy does not always equate with beginner's stuff (gone now the days of those classic learning methods. And on my field, If learning was difficult means you have crap instuctors).

And If it boils down of using my Canon EOS 5D MkIV in Auto Mode but I am happy, so what? I have a smile on my face and I have a $4K DSLR, and you don't.

Long live and prosper....

MARVEY'S post above comes here:

 

You do you. You enjoy your Canon 5D mark IV in "auto," that is your privilege. I had a blast with a 100 Dollar K100 D Super in manual. Nowadays I walk around with an Olympus EM5 mark I and a fast prime.

Agreed on the importance of "why." Thing is sometimes you understand "why" by means of "how" or "experience" and this depends per person. I find "why" and "how" equally important. Some things I learnt because I tried something new without expecting fun and excitement.

Some courses at school I took because the subject matter was complementary and useful. Fun did not apply and I still appreciate some key skills I learnt from those courses. Seriously, being able to calculate loans and mortgages might not be exciting but f**k it is useful, especially when the banks make everything sound "too easy."

 

Just to chime in, I'm still using a P&S and already understand the exposure triangle, single point focus, metering modes, clipping,etc.... purely out of reading on the web. While some might not approve of learning without actual experience, I'm pretty sure If I were to pick up a crop DSLR, I'd be able to make more use of it than the 90% who buy DLSRs and use auto. If someone is taking a photography course in high school (which I would like to have taken but my education system doesn't have that privilege), they'd better make the most out of that learning experience, especially when their parents bought them a DSLR. It's not about how expensive the camera, it's how you use it. I'm with Marv on this one. Know the dials and buttons and what they do and you'll take great shots eventually. And if the class doesn't cover the exposure triangle, it's a shit class.

Edit: And yeah, primes>>>>>>>>>zooms for learning and quality for the price. A friend of mine got talked into buying the 24-105 (1k$) with a 650d which produced worse images than the 100$ 50 1.8 she already had. She thought since it was used with the 5D that it would be better. Now she's using the Sigma 35 1.4 with her 650d and has no intention to upgrade to FF . People...

 

A very nice documentary/educational video for beginners. Many lessons to be learned from this:

 

I wouldn't worry about the first camera at all, cameras come and go. now that they're digital ones it's like computers, you buy them, aaaaannnnd they're outdated.
when I take out my eos5D mkII nowadays, I expect the pepperidge farm guy to remember.

and I agree that point and shoot cameras are wrong if the purpose is learning. there will be plenty of time to learn how to be lazy once he actually knows how photography works.

 

That is a really good point. I never meant to imply that you don't need to learn the technical aspects of photography, especially for a photography class. I just don't think that you should necessarily give up the convenience of a DSLR with good auto-focus, aperture/shutter priority, or automatic modes for the sake of a DSLR camera that has easier to use manual controls. If it were me I would go for mirrorless anyway but they seem to be more expensive on the used market than a DSLR.

Learning framing and composition is just as important as learning how to control a camera. I can pretty much guarantee anyone who has a real passion for photography will eventually crave more control and learn how to use manual settings regardless of what they start with. I wouldn't want to deter anyone from getting to that point by overwhelming them in the beginning. When I asked you guys for advice on learning how to program nobody told me "go learn assembly language" or "you have to learn C" (at least Marv and Deep Funk didn't). You don't have to throw people in the deep end. It is okay to build your way up in complexity.

 

I think it's the best to ask the kid - how far would he go into photography? If he's serious, just skip the HS elective & enroll to traditional film/darkroom course elsewhere. If photography is just a casual hobby, I think consumer-level DSLR (D3xxx-5xxx) will serve him better than complicated advanced enthusiast/prosumer cameras. I used various cameras from iPhones to full frame, yet Black White Film & Darkroom college course taught me more than anything. Film and primes force the photographer to think and visualize, not sprayn'pray (pressing shutter buttons like mad cows to obtain good photos as result of low chance of success)*.

I would say a cheap camera + a cheap 50mm + a tutorial/book/portfolio are more than enough. Many people are soooo focused on gears; willing to spend hundreds-thousands to gears but not $50 portfolio to get ideas of "good enough" and "fine" photos. Ansel Adams books are must-read for any beginner, no matter digital/film.

*except hi-speed action photography

 

My college is the opposite. In order to enroll for digital class (Lightroom-printing stuffs), one needs to passed traditional BW developing class with mandatory manual cam & 35/50mm. There are several photography centers which sell film stuffs & offer film courses in Bay Area (especially in SF - one even has a mural enlarger to print large format film!). Some even have darkrooms. I guess I'm just lucky to live here.

p.s. I never been to LA, so I don't have any idea of photography stuffs over there.

 

In addition to B&H Photo, KEH also sells used camera gear. Both offer 90-day warranties on most of their used equipment. I'm not familiar with Nikon DSLRs from the D200 generation, but contemporary Canon DSLRs (10D, 20D, 30D, 40D) from that period would also be good alternatives for starting out. They have the top LCD panel for reviewing shutter, aperture, ISO, white balance, and metering mode. The same information is visible in the optical viewfinder.

I shoot with the old Canon 5D and any number of adapted manual focus lenses. I purchased an Olympus 50mm f/1.8 OM mount off of eBay for ~ $25. A Canon EOS - Olympus OM adapter can be bought off eBay for ~ $7. In fact, my kit while at school consists of the Canon 5D, Olympus 28mm f/3.5, Olympus 50mm f/1.8, and Tamron Adaptall 90mm f/2.5 macro. It does what I need without having to mess with annoying menus.

KEH
$79 Canon 10D body + battery + charger: https://www.keh.com/shop/canon-eos-10d-6-3-megapixel-digital-slr-camera-body-only-black.html
$25 Olympus 28mm f/3.5 (equivalent to 44.8mm) + caps: https://www.keh.com/shop/olympus-28mm-f-3-5-om-mount-manual-focus-lens-49.html

eBay
$6.19 Canon EOS - Olympus OM lens adapter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-OM-...303849?hash=item3a60cf55e9:g:HIMAAOxyhodRy-r~

For ~ $100, it's what I would most likely buy based on what appears to be available at this time.

 

hello,

wow, ask and you receive.

now i need to have MrsForBin help me review and make a decision.

thanks all!

@Marvey, what would you want for that lens if we go Canon?

 

At least get the 50mm F1.8. When you go for a crop-sensor and you want that 50mm focal range find a good 35mm lens.

 

hello,

pulled the trigger on a used Nikon D200 with an 18-135 lens, a bunch of accessories, a 90 day warranty, and 100% buyers satisfaction listed as a third party (UpBeat Electronics) on the Big River for $279 all in.

seems like a pretty good deal, we shall see.

thanks to everyone who posted here.

(MrsForBin sez: if #1 son gets bored with this pursuit, she would be happy to inherit this tool.)

 

Really think the D750 is a solid choice if he doesn't need film capabilities. Has better internal AF than 810 but doesn't have anti aliasing.

But if you really want something that is high quality for much less money and still an incredible camera, the D700s are great. So many less issues than the 800/810 and it shoots in low light incredibly well.

You can find those basically new for 750-800 and US Model.

I messed with L glass and MK3 but found the antiquated AF to be really annoying. Still there are merits for both but I never felt like L glass was something so unique, especially when Sigma is coming out with such nice Art series lenses.