General Headphone Advice

Well, you can level out the peak with the other frequencies, but since it's a resonance, it will still show up in CSD measurements and in listening as well. Otherwise, you can reduce the peak further in level but you're basically creating a dip at that point. The best sounding HD800s right now are the ones with the Superdupont and some mods or EQ to increase the upper mids.

I totally believe the HD800's a dead end. The enclosure, as good as its material and design, is resonant in the worst frequency range possible. There's no way to completely salvage the HD800, as evident by the band-aided HD800S (which still has the HD800 name on its headband ). I personally believe that the oval-shaped enclosure of the HD6x0 will be the optimal shape, a conclusion which I derived from simple observation: both Orpheuses use oval-shaped enclosures. That's why I, and IMO many SBAF members have hyped the HD6x0 series so much: they have the best design of any headphones acoustically, hence the best tonality ( the good speakers in good room vs best speakers in worst room analogy applies here). The only things that could be improved upon are the drivers, the enclosure material and the industrial design, which should (emphasis on the "should") be easy since the HD800 hits the mark perfectly on three aspects. If a pair of headphones like that were to appear, well most of us wouldn't be here discussing this stuff would we ?

 

As all things are subjective here, it doesn't really matter how much I exaggerate or don't. It simply has more capable drivers. How many miles one sees could be measured by many things. I could never be satisfied with HD600 for my usage and that's it, you can consider subjective findings like that quite many miles.

 

I own both the HD800 and HD650 and modded them to my liking. I often get lost in how good the HD800 sounds, but almost as often I do the same with the HD650. I tend to agree with @ultrabike. Different tonality, slightly different soundstage, and different build quality. The perceived increase in clarity could very well be due to the emphasis on the high end. There isn't miles, a lot, or even 25% difference between them.

I do not believe that the HD800 is at the end of the road. Those that have been around have always sought the HD850, the perfect blend of tone and staging. We have tried to make it our self with mods and gotten closer, but not all the way there. There is still hope.

 

@Ash1412

Yes, resonances are a bitch. I believe it's possible to "fix" the peak of the HD800 and reduce the overall ringing inside the headphone to a level where it's not a problem anymore. But you right that it's still going to be wonky around that area. So it will be "fixed", but FR still won't be perfect. The HD600 has a much better FR.

And I've always wondered where the HD800 dip in the midrange is coming from, driver or enclosure? Both? The idea about oval being better for resonances than round is interesting, it certainly sounds plausible.

But personally I'm at a point now with my HD800's now where I prefer them over pretty much any other headphone on the market, but it's certainly taken some time to get there. They are finicky beasts. I'm not even sure that the whole ring driver thing was such a great idea to begin with.

What interests me the most right now is what Hifiman is doing with the HE-X and HE-K. They're not quite modded HD800 beaters yet, but they are close. Oh so close.

 

Some believe the HD650M is the HD850 we're looking for

 

Not me, I need my HD800 bass and soundstage. But the HD650 is nice in its own right.

 

That's funny comment considering all the talk about EQ. So you can take any phone and just increase the high end to be more clear... well you can actually adjust the better phones too and they can actually sound better so..

Anyway, I'm usually in the minority talking about bass. But if we take on the classic bass/mid/treble scenario, bass is 1/3 of the whole sound. HD600 simply doesn't do it and gets congested super easily. No way I'd listen to Submotion Orchestra etc on HD600 and enjoy. It's like using wimpy desktop monitors. Unless one has experimented with HD800, it's hard to believe how clean and loud they can go (forget the 3% bass distortion you see in the graphs, it's meaningless to the sound).

 

Just to stir the pot a little, here's a writeup in (a horrible) PowerPoint format that attempts to critique the engineering challenges and accomplishments of various headphones. Ie, this is a critique of the technical accomplishments of various headphones.

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...2h0NQ8/mobilepresent?slide=id.g25f83b2cd_0356

tl;dr - this person considers the hd800 to have solved more of the engineering challenges confronting dynamic drivers than any other dynamic, even the hd650.

Note that this paper does not attempt to evaluate the actual listening experience.

Finally, take this with a grain of salt. It's just one person's take on things.

Edited to include the actual link to the document.

 

Yeah, the last page on that PowerPoint doesn't give me much confidence in the writer's opinion. Not trying to be an asshole or snob or anything, but anyone who doesn't shit on the HD700 is off my trust list. Besides, his rather crude analysis of FR and lack of CSD charts in his comparisons show that he is spec-chasing. I wonder how the HEK would fare in this

 

So you are talking from experience?

I think it would be better to not label anything as "Better". I've found my way (for now - might very well change in the future), I couldn't care less if someone uses or doesn't use EQ. But this is a discussion forum, everyone can chime in and encourage to experiment one way or another. Hopefully with personal experience and not just quoting this and that and maybes.

 

I feel the HD800 driver itself is actually smoother sounding than the HD600 driver. The HD600 driver has a minor resonance at around 5kHz (a strong 11kHz resonance shows up on the measurements too, which isn't as bad on the head or even most couplers. I think this might be audible but I'm not sure). I was always slightly bothered by this (it doesn't sound nasty, but it does sound "off" to me), so after some time I decided to take raw driver measurements (the driver is super easy to pop out) to confirm this.
The HD800 driver is also probably slightly brighter. I've not taken my own raw HD800 driver measurements (and am not planning to do so).

I also believe that the HD600 driver is much less resolving. It may actually be on par with most overpriced planar crap but that doesn't make it near as good as the HD800.

I can certainly understand why one would prefer either over the other. They are so different and excel at different things that I feel the best thing is to have both (if you can stand the HD800 that is). I can't stand listening to the stock HD800. Even off super warm amps or with EQ - the resonance still gets through. Mods get rid of most of the issues for me.

Spoiler: For what it's worth, I still feel this applies (not really part of the discussion, so in a spoiler):

JPS Labs Abyss Headphone Impressions - The Real Deal Hands On Experience (Reply #100) :

Studio monitors vs headphones (Reply #10) :

The All Purpose Advice Thread (Reply #1113) :

 

The HD800 has so many caveats to go along with it. It's great, but it needs EQ. It's great but it needs a resonator. It's great but only with the best recorded albums in your collection. It's great but but but

The HD6x0 seems to really only have one but, and it's that the bass isn't the best (and the modded HD650 seems to fix that issue for many people). To me, that signals it's a better all around headphone as a daily driver and as a workhorse. I put on my HD600s and just forget about them, I'm just enjoying the music. I still want to try the HD800 with my setup, see how it sounds with my system, but I also got a pair of sorrodje's resonators should I ever decide to buy one. That to me says there's room for improvement, and I don't mean the 800S.

IMO and YMMV of course.

 

Distortion is similar on the HD600 and HD800 from 100Hz on. To me distortion is mainly "clarity" which I feel stats excel at. The SR009 and HE90 have always sounded clearer (but not more resolving) than the HD800 for me.

Yes, the HD600 is a very resolving headphone - and as I said "I can't stand listening to the stock HD800" - so you could say that IMO HD800 (modded) > HD600 > HD800 (stock)

In the end this discussion is pointless -
if you like being able to enjoy all your music and have instruments rendered with great tonal accuracy : get the HD600,
if you like to spend countless hours tweaking your system and your headphone mods to your preferences, just so you can enjoy hearing all the detail in the recording farts in the background : get the HD800

(Essentially what the posts above said)