Measurement Setups - Post Your Rig!

Discussion in 'Measurement Setups, Systems, and Standards' started by Luckbad, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    6XX reversed drivers uncompensated.jpg 6xxm drivers switched SBAF comp.jpg 6XXm left uncompensated all the drivers.jpg 6XXm right uncompensated all the drivers.jpg
    Phil's EARS SBAF compensation Left txt
    Phil's EARS SBAF compensation Right txt
    Koss Porta Pro mdat
    Senn 6XXm uncompensated mdat
    Senn 6XXm SBAF compensated mdat

    To compare 6XXm drivers switched vs originals I think they would need to be signal level matched? So, that would require redoing the measurements that way they are all done at once with the same settings on my amp and hopefully better consistency in positioning. "Measurements are hard" and time consuming.

    My comp's levels need to be slightly adjusted and between 3-5k needs an extra touch? I've shared my EARS' SBAF compensation files and REW mdat files just incase any kind and proficient participant would be interested in lending a hand. FYI I'm not Excellent. My wife actually helped me do my original SBAF HEQ txt, and I think it partly failed due to my poor instructions. Luckily, Lyander and Biodegraded offered their assistance.

    Some iem and earbuds measurements to come for more data. And I would lend a Hemp to @purr1n for review and for calibration reference. ?
     
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Hemp is probably a bad candidate for calibration. I need to repair my second HD650 and use that as an SBAF calibrator.
     
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  3. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    6XXm - all the drivers and swapped uncompensated.jpg 6XXm - all the drivers and swapped uncompensated 2.jpg 6XXm - Left and Swapped SBAF comp.jpg 6XXm - Left and SWAPPED SBAF comp 2.jpg 6XXm - left and swapped uncompensated.jpg 6XXm - Left and swapped uncompensated 2.jpg 6XXm - Right and Swapped SBAF comp.jpg 6XXm - Right and Swapped SBAF comp 2.jpg 6XXm - Right and swapped uncompensated.jpg 6XXm - Right and swapped uncompensated 2.jpg

    I went for two distinctive earpad placements between 1s and 2s. 1 being more in attempt to recreate the way I think I wear, headband angled back with driver forward and down from ear canal. 2 being more neutral, headband centered with driver centered and slightly forward.

    Obvious outlier in 6XXm - R2.

    Mic and amp levels were all left untouched in between measurements. Also, tried to keep laptop fan speed same at all measurements, which was low but audible.

    Would've been interesting data for my mods if I had taken measurements before and after.

    Need to adjust levels focusing 1kHz and down, then fine tuning 2-6Hz if necessary based on level matching results and more measurements.

    Earpods, Airpods, Beats urBeats3, and Grado Hemp next. After I had my fun I'll start messing with compensation file.
     
  4. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Supra-aurals are the worst. Took three measurements but they were all too different from about 2kHz up. I posted quick impressions in Hemp thread. I've not listened again yet. It was difficult getting to low enough volumes with my desktop setup. I bought as a Porta Pro upgrade anyway for portable listening. Will write up the death match later.

    Grado Hemp SBAF comp.jpg Grado Hemp uncompensated.jpg

    Just remembered: Like the Porta Pro, when I measured Hemp the right sine sweep sounded funny. At the end of the sweep when its up in frequency it would start sounding wobbly like some sort of 70's sci-fi sound effect. What could this be? I think it has something to do with not being able to get SPL calibration settings low enough. How does it effect frequency response measurement? I'll try again messing with computer's output settings.

    Edit: SBAF comp was used in first graph.
    Edit2: Remembered I have other interesting Grado pads. Maybe they will be easier to measure. Or maybe not, I think I remember reading something about Hemp dimensions being a little different to other Grado.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  5. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Round 2 of Grado Hemp attempt to measure. Wanted to attempt more consistent positioning between stock and aftermarket earpads (up next).

    Grado Hemp SBAF comp ROUND2.jpg Grado Hemp uncompensated Round 2.jpg

    Data collection almost complete. I see REW has an EQ function and it has a target curve option. Is that something that's compatible with what we are using here with EARS? Or is it in the works, anyone know?
     
  6. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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  7. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    HD414 pads is how I used Porta Pro for years. Went to stock recently because I bought a new massdrop version of PP. Not listened to the difference yet, but from memory stock pads are bassier. Will do an overlay later.

    Listening to Hemps with Geekrias right now and I like: 1. extra comfort!, 2. extra air / less congested, more soundstage (soundstage not a big deal to me). That's probably my reaction after trying PP w/ HD414.

    Koss Porta Pro HD414 SBAF comp.jpg Koss Porta Pro HD414 uncompensated.jpg

    EDIT: Hemp + geekria honeymoon over. There is a loss in resolution (driver distance) and warmth. Not major, some tracks for the better and some for the worse. Worried also bass might be a little over done and not lined up well into midbass/mids. Sounds fine with electronic music, but bass guitar sounds a little aback.

    EDIT2: Koss Porta Pro w HD414 pads sound bad - treble fatigue. I liked them originally because imo they were the headphones that closest approximated Grado when I had no Grado. I wanted a Grado but the SR-series sound didnt justify the cost to upgrade from Porta Pro (price and form factor). I waited until I could afford something higher tier from Grado which eventually happened (Grado HF3). Then I bought a new Porta Pro with new pads and enjoyed that more than I remembered enjoying Porta w/ HD414. Now stock Porta Pro has been upgraded to Grado Hemp.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
  8. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    lol. Went to prepare earpods and urbeats3 and noticed the lightning connector ends. Cannot connect to amp this way. Dang, and I was going to make a quip about how earpods were not burnt-in yet.

    I do have some non-apple iems and earbuds but not sure where - will look.
     
  9. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Please advise for further adjustments to SBAF comp for my EARS?

    I pulled the left channel down to match right / +4 to L channel in sbaf comp txt.

    Balance is pretty good from approximately 3kHz down. Above that is a pretty big and consistent difference between left and right channels. From here it seems to me I should adjust appproximately 3kHz+ Right channel to match 3kHz+ Left channel.

    Will re-measure Porta, 5XX still in mail, and could not easily find any other iem/earbuds around house so will order some.

    6XXm SBAF comp adj1 - ALL.jpg

    6XXm SBAF comp adj1 - L1:R1.jpg
    6XXm SBAF comp adj1 - L2:R2.jpg
    6XXm SBAF comp adj1 - L1:R1 switched drivers.jpg
    6XXm SBAF comp adj1 - L2:R2 switched drivers.jpg
    Koss Porta Pro SBAF comp adj1.jpg
     
  10. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    6XXm - SBAF comp adj2 for L:R balance.jpg

    Altered approximately 10 frequency points total in the txt file - just attacking the most stark differences. I feel happy I got such an improvement. However, this is just one measurement of one headphone, so more refinement needed. I remember reading Marv's experience of continuous alterations made some headphones better and others worse. I'll post up before and after SBAF compensation adjustments for my EARS from previously posted measurements and see what you guys think.

    Edit: All adustments were on right-side only, and to bring imbalance peaks down to match left-side.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
  11. Philimon

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  12. Philimon

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    Remember that my L1/R1 and L2/R2 etc are alternate positioning of headphones on EARS. These are all the same measurements in my previous posts, just with SBAF comp adjusted for my EARS to get some balance between L/R.

    Grado Hemp's measurement imbalance is pretty clear compared to 6XXm. Positioning was difficult though in comparison so I dont know.

    Beats EP imbalance may be due to my cheating of physically putting outside pressure on cups to get a seal. Would need to compare to measurements of non-cheating. I like these for isolation and sound is good, comfort is weak.

    Fostex T-X0 (v1) 's balance look good. In T-X0 thread on SBAF driver matching by Purr1n's measurements looked good as well. Sound sibilant - needs mods.

    Grado Hemp SBAF comp adj1 - all.jpg

    BEATS EP SBAF comp adj1 -all.jpg
    Fostex T-X0 (v1) SBAF comp adj1 - all.jpg
    Fostex T-X0 (v1) SBAF comp adj1 - all smoothed.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  13. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Not sure if this will be useful - but in brown is @purr1n 's flat-plate measurement of stock HD6XX, compensated using his flat-plate correction here (I think that's the actual coupler in the photo) vs representative L & R EARS ones of yours with SBAF EARS compensation, before your latest alterations to the comp curves (so those ones you linked for download in post #221 of this thread).

    [​IMG]

    Different couplers, different headphones (stock vs modded) so apples to potatoes - but assuming the compensations get in the ballpark of similarity and given the good channel match you've shown for your 6XX pair: to try to equalize the problematic 2k-6k area, for both sides I'd use the R comp file up to around 4k, then swap to L up to about 8k, then back to R for the rest. Pull them apart / stitch them back together in Excel or a text editor, it's simpler that way than trying to do the trace arithmetic in REW.

    And please smooth your graphs before display!! :)
     
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  14. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Let me get additional samples of HD650 on the EARS.
     
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  15. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I think I have same concerns as Purr1n alluded to in his request for more time and data. There appears to be some 650/6XX variations in freq response so my pair may not match up with Purr1ns.

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/solving-the-hd650-mystery.8026/
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ser-hd650-love-appreciation-thread.44/page-91

    Mine look closer to the "new avg".
    [​IMG]

    There is evidence that manufacturing may have seen a dip in tolerances and materials right after move to Romania accounting for the new average difference in frequency response. Those tolerances could be improving over time.

    I will add smoothed versions of graphs from here out. Thanks Biodegraded

    I'll donate mine to SBAF loaner library if you find it a good candidate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  16. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Just a quick one... I created two scales of x-axis of 60-110db to match my previous posts, and 10-110db to better compare to Marv's graph of the 5XX. Of course my measurements are inexperienced and compensation curve still baking...

    5XX uncompensated.jpg

    5XX uncompensated ii.jpg
    5XX SBAF comp adj1.jpg
    5XX SBAF comp adj1 ii.jpg
    5XX SBAF comp adj1 smoothed.jpg
    5XX SBAF comp adj1 smoothed ii.jpg
     
  17. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Some cheap earbuds Edifier P180. I ordered these to try EARs without worrying too much about headphone positioning. However, this didn't go as planned. What I discovered is that my EARs model ears are not so symmetrical. One looks like the mold for Jeff's ear and the other a mold for John's. The space between tragus and concha (?) in my left ear is larger allowing for more earbud positioning which is how I ended up with more inconsistencies on that side.

    Edifier P180 uncompensated.jpg

    Edifier P180 SBAF comp adj1.jpg
    Edifier P180 Left SBAF comp adj1.jpg
    Edifier P180 Right SBAF comp adj1.jpg

    I tried modding 5XX but messed up then lost interest. Returned.

    Edit: I'll try switching drivers with Edifier.
     
  18. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I've been busy today and have hardly listened. Before measurements I said in D5200 thread that they sounded like 6XX but better bass but brighter (bad). D5200 vs 6XX SBAF comp 1.jpg D5200 vs 6XX SBAF comp 2.jpg

    Denon D5200 uncompensated.jpg Denon D5200 uncompensated 2.jpg Denon D5200 SBAF comp 1.jpg Denon D5200 SBAF comp 2.jpg
     
  19. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Monoprice HR5C, like the Fischer Audio, Spadger, NVX, and so on. From browsing here, HF, and Changstar they were acceptable and recommendable for the price as a closed headphone. I owned the Fischer Audio variant a long time ago and my feelings aligned with general consensus. I had used them mostly for gaming.

    First impressions: good extension, a little too lean and sharp, okay resolution. Comfortable and cheap. Approximately $40shipped, and I've seen sales down to $25. With it you get two sets of pads: pleather and velour, detachable cable, and carrying case (stupid big).

    Other measurements by @ultrabike , and measurements by @purr1n . Some tried modding (no surprise) like @Hands .

    Have there been revisions? There was/is a semi-open version and premium wood versions and read some mention of enhanced drivers with titanium coating something something - don't know, not interested. I bought these as parts to see if the cups would fit 6XX. The headband fits 6XX capsule. It's cheap and creaky but a little bigger!

    I was late and just got a biodyna Foster (Denon D5200) which caused me to re-evaluate my other headphones. Hemp: gone and upgraded to RS2e. 6XX: I was not using anyway so lets do experiments on it. Also, purchased EMU Teak and Ebony. Actually, not completely late. I bought the Denon D2000 back in the day - didn't like and the Lawton Audio mods didn't help. D5200 is good, great bass and good resolution but too bright - pad roll helps but still sounds a bit glaring(?). Hoping E-MU tweaks are a little better. I know this is old news but just acknowledging that I'm aware: the Fosters all pretty much the same bones underneath. Except TH900 driver being a level up. I've read comments that the E-MU driver magnet is slightly stronger Tesla than THX00, but I've not found specs or someone's personal testing - just non referenced comments (shills?). I'm going to try find out more and find pics of drivers with stamped model number. I can atleast compare my D5200 and E-MU. Also, E-MU cups are different than THX00 versions. E-MU cups I've read are slightly less thick wood which would change resonance and cup volume. The teak cups being the most extreme wood since they are acknowledged by E-MU to be thinnest of all with a different interior cup pattern. Unfortunately, I've read this makes them a bit fragile and more susceptible to shrinkage. :eek: Yeah, I didn't read that part until after purchasing mine used. Anyways, I'll get back to this later after headphones arrive.

    @E_Schaaf how much does it cost for TH900 driver upgrade / mods sir? :)

    Monoprice HR5C.jpg

    Monoprice HR5C smoothed.jpg
    Monoprice HR5C (graph2).jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
  20. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: Upscale Audio; recovering HFM addict

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    Maybe this would fit better in a different thread, but you asked here, so here's the deal with the Fosters.

    1. THX00, TH600, TH610, Emu Teak, Denon D2000/D5000/D7000 all use the same exact driver / baffle assembly. The driver has two vents open and there's one baffle vent. The rumor that the Teak has a stronger magnet is false. Foster provides an OEM dev kit to all of these builders, they tweak it (mostly just with different pads, density of front foam ring, cups and aesthetic tweaks), and then it hits the shelves. Most of them have zero internal cup stuffing. These products are 100% made from OEM parts. MSRP price tag has nothing to do with anything on any of these aside from marketing. EMU Teak and THX00 are the only ones that are pleasant to listen to unmodded IMO. They achieve this by using a pad with a narrow earhole that obstructs part of the driver's front face to reduce treble peaks and help with the lower midrange suckout which is present to some extent on all of them.

    2. There are two standard cup shapes when it comes to foster variants. EMU Teak and the Denons have a shallower cup with thinner walls, and the screwholes kind of 'float' off the perimeter of the internal of the cup, whereas all the Fostexes (aside from TH600) and the non-teak EMUs have a slightly thicker internal perimeter ring that the screwholes are seated within. Despite the shallower cups on the Denons and EMU Teak, the actual internal space might be the same because of the screwhole arrangement. TH600 (metal cups), however, has the deeper standard cup shape but with the 'floating' screwholes, so technically the most total internal cup volume. It's an extremely snug fit depth-wise, but you can fit the TH900 driver into the smaller cups of the EMU Teak and Denons if desired. TH900 cups are the same internal shape as the X00 cups, though on the outside they have the indentation around the logo.

    3. Denon D#200 series shares many of the same design principles of the Foster OEM headphones, but as far as I can tell the driver is different, different headband, baffle and front foam ring a slightly different shape (screwholes don't line up with the TH900 drivers so transplants are impossible) though certainly designed with the same principles in mind. They seem more listenable out of the box from a tonal standpoint (haven't heard one, just referring to the graphs I've seen) than most of the Foster types, but do have similar problematic behavior.

    4. The 548843 driver is made by Foster for exclusive use by Fostex in the TH900 and TH909 headphones. Fostex keeps this under wraps by selling this part exclusively through Full Compass. Full Compass used to take serial numbers for verification before a customer could order drivers, but it was easy to get around this even if you didn't own a TH900. However, as of a month ago, Full Compass is no longer selling these drivers to customers, you have to go through an authorized Fostex repair shop, who will interrogate you, ask for picture verification, etc, and then they will CC Full Compass and let you order drivers. Once the drivers are ordered, Full Compass requests them from Fostex, who orders them from Foster because nobody keeps stock of them. So you're looking at 8-12 week wait once the order is placed if you can get that far. This extremely inefficient system pissed me off so much that I am soon abandoning the TH900 driver and using custom drivers on my own builds. Basically, I don't want to deal with that bullshit anymore. I'll only do a transplant if you can manage to get the drivers yourself or send me a stock TH900.

    DM me if you want to talk numbers and customizations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
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