Metrum Acoustics Pavane DAC listening impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by jexby, May 15, 2016.

  1. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    All,

    general product info is here:
    http://www.metrum-acoustics.com/PavaneEN.html

    starting this thread after hearing a Pavane DAC at @MisterRogers, included as part of an amazing chain:
    mac mini --> Audirvana+ USB out --> Mutec 3+USB AES out --> Pavane XLR out --> EC Studio --> HE1K

    being accustomed to a home rig similar to the above but with
    Yggdrasil as DAC and XLR --> ISOMax --> SE EC Black Widow1 --> HE1K

    my ears were treated to a DAC that does compete with Yggdrasil, much to my delight and surprise!

    more details forthcoming.
     
  2. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    (Reserved for future edits of initial listening session.)

    Sorry for the long delay, let's review.
    spent 20 minutes wearing out the A/B switch on @MisterRogers EC Studio, going from
    Yggdrasil SE to EC Studio
    vs.
    Pavane XLR to EC Studio
    (to HE1K)
    source material via MacMini, Audirvana+ and 24/96or192 lossless material.

    a few characteristics stood out:

    Pavane delivers an increased step forward in vocal placement with many tracks.
    Yggdrasil pulled some vocals back into the mix.
    won't claim any severe changes to depth of sound field other than this upon initial listen tho, as this will likely
    be a personal (and headphone) preference whether it's noticeable or preferable.

    Pavane delivered a taller sound stage presence.
    imagine a rectangle of ratio 3 tall x 5 wide, that was Yggdrasil.
    Pavane jumped up to a 4 x 5 sound stage, which was appreciated.

    Pavane delivered a smidge different, perhaps more spatial location of some instruments.
    placement was a bit "higher" than Yggdrasil, this could be the 4x5 rectangle tho.

    micro detailing, hm sometimes Pavane appeared to have a slight lead, string decay or attack.
    hard to tell, very track dependent IMO.

    won't get into "value propositions" at the moment other than:
    would retail MSRP of Pavane be worth the extra $ over Yggdrasil MSRP?
    probably not.

    BUT if prices were equal-ish, could easily envision many folks preferring the Pavane DAC into TOTL amps.
    with HE1K the Pavane vocal forward step and 4x5 delivery gives the HE1K more perspective.
    had I (still) owned the HD800, bet the Yggdrasil would be a more comfortable pairing.

    Hope for a longer audition of Pavane this summer for certain!
    there is more to be uncovered, including lesser recorded material and different musical styles (acoustic vs. processed).

    btw where's the emoji for:
    paypal begging toward a EC Studio Jr amp....wow, EC tube amps are da bomb!
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
  3. ctrlm

    ctrlm New

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Perth
    It will be interesting to get your further thoughts on the similarities/differences, particularly with different types of music. Of course the Yggdrasil is a lot cheaper so I guess there is a value proposition here to consider.

    I've never had the chance to listen to an Yggdrasil but I have the Pavane, I use the BNC & AES inputs.
     
  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    I need to bring my Model S up to Denver again so we can do a comparison. Had the new Metrums been available when I got that, would have been a tough choice. Maybe I'll feel silly for not waiting after a comparison.
     
  5. ctrlm

    ctrlm New

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Perth
    ...and maybe you will feel vindicated - in which case I will feel silly after all the correspondence with Audial and then jumping for the Metrum :D
     
  6. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    It is compelling how similar the Metrum DACs are to the Schiit Multibit designs...an industrial chip not designed for audio, very well built power supplies, etc.

    I have no idea what Metrum is doing DSP wise or filter wise, but they seem to be doing well, but of course for a price.
     
  7. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Metrum is non-oversampling. No DSP, upsampling, digital filter, oversampling, you name it...well, unless you spring for the FPGA models with "forward correcting" whatever. I do think they use a mild 70khz, first-order filter though, if that counts.
     
  8. SnakeOilHypeHalllucinator

    SnakeOilHypeHalllucinator New

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I would love some Pavane measurements
     
  9. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    post #2 updated FWIW
     
  10. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Got my 10-15mins in today between Pavane and Yggdrasil. Pavane is an excellent sounding DAC, even ignoring my preference for non-oversampling. Big step up from their previous generation of DACs, and maybe the best in non-oversampling I've heard (or in general, regardless of NOS). Note that all of this is based on brief listening and is subject to change based on further comparisons and time spent listening.

    My thoughts on the two are as followed, clearly exaggerated to better show texture of the cereal:

    - Pavane does staging really well. Wider, taller, more depth than Yggdrasil. Placement of everything was spot on. Good layering. And yet when the music called for something to be intense and in your face, the Pavane did that better too. Yggdrasil sounded more like it was on a flat plane and sort of held there in place.

    - Pavane does have a slightly sweeter and fuller sound to it. It almost makes the Yggdrasil a bit clinical sounding in comparison. It might be closer to the Gungnir Multibit in overall tone and timbre but without the other ways Gungnir Multibit loses ground to Yggdrasil. The fuller sound on the Pavane coupled with the point above, better at making elements seem in your face that need to be, the Pavane overall felt like it hit harder and with better dynamic swings.

    - Resolution is surprisingly close on the two. Edges on the Pavane were a hair softer but still very well defined. Mostly due to a common trait of oversampling, the Yggdrasil did have sharper edges, but bordering more on the territory of sounding artificial than natural vs. Pavane. Again, some will prefer the razor sharp edges of oversampling vs. non-oversampling, but damn if this is not incredibly close - best I've heard of a non-oversampled DAC yet, I might think.

    - Most notable on acoustic guitars was the way the Pavane produced a wonderful sense of that resonance you get from the open, wood body on the guitar. It just sounded compressed and flat on the Yggdrasil. Vocals on Pavane better kept the sound of resonance you get from the chest and sounded more three-dimensional.

    Really, this might be the first non-oversampling DAC I've heard that just doesn't seem to give anything up against the best oversampling DACs out there. It's almost always been a matter of accepting some trade offs to go for the sound you prefer, but that's almost non-existent in this case. While, yes, some of the inherent differences were apparent between NOS and OS, the Pavane seems to make ground and perform even better than the Yggdrasil in areas where non-oversampling would usually falter.

    I'm listening to the Musette now to as I write this, and it has a lot of the same magic. But my guess is the thing that pulls it all together for that "wow" moment is when you add the forward correcting FPGA module and start paralleling chips in the Menuet and Pavane.

    Overall, things are looking very good for the new Metrum products, and the Pavane was just stellar. Eager to get more time with it down the road!
     
  11. Greed

    Greed Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Yay, more exposure! Were you using it with a Mutec + Regen in front? AES seems to be the only way to really get to that magic.
     
  12. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    wait in line for more time with a Pavane. :D
    I've pitched a tent on @MisterRogers (small) front lawn. camping should be easier this summer (for DAC time) than last winter (for EC Studio time).

    only caveat I wanted to add-
    we were listening to Yggdrasil SE out to Studio IIRC vs. Pavane XLR out to Studio.
    not suggesting balanced was the root cause for the deltas we heard, just wanting to be clear.

    ps. yes, Mutec 3+USB was in the chain. @MisterRogers want to verify the paths for us?
     
  13. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    @jexby just said everything I needed to. :)
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,952
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    @Hands, I've read your musings with DACs over the years and have gotten a very good sense of what you really like. I hope that one day after you save up for a house or when you find a more permanent place to stay, that you will consider going to vinyl. Both you and I have slightly different tastes in DACs, but I really do think that vinyl is where our tastes would finally converge.
     
  15. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Got the house under my belt.

    Vinyl some day, for sure.
     
  16. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    plastic platters from the Neanderthal age and diamond needles. ;)
    where is the -1 emoji?

    edit: add smiley. because to each his own.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,952
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    That is wise.

    Terms such as "resolution" as applied in the DAC world even don't apply in vinyl world. Everything you have said about various the DACs only lead to one place.
     
  18. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    Home Page:
    Yep, my chain is fed by a REGEN into Mutec 3.1+ modified for an LPS. REGEN and Mutec are each fed by a Reflektor-D built for specific V/I and digital. AES out of Mutec into Pavane. Another important point - Yggdrasil is being fed via BNC out of Mutec. I'll need to switch up (give Yggdrasil AES) and compare.
     
  19. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    Home Page:
    Me too! This Dac is just too good to not be getting more attention. When I get Pavane cased up, I'll let Jexby & Hands spend more time with it.
     
  20. ctrlm

    ctrlm New

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Perth
    @Hands - as you know from our correspondence from before I bought the Pavane, I had to depend on the opinion of the official distributor here in OZ for both Schiit & Metrum as there was no opportunity to audition them here on the west coast. It is uncanny how his description of the differences between the two align with what you have posted, particularly as far as fullness, punch and soundstage are concerned. There is always an element of doubt when someone selling you something is recommending the more expensive item but he took a lot of time to ask me about my setup, musical preferences and what I was looking for before articulating the differences between the two and recommending the Pavane.

    I'm 3 months in on the Pavane and I just can't imagine looking at anything else. One major benefit I've discovered is that a lot of dynamically compressed music that was intolerably harsh on my previous DS DACs is actually listenable with the Pavane. I guess that would be a trait of most NOS DACs and their absence of glare?

    Anyway, thanks for the justification......not that I needed it :D
     

Share This Page