Metrum Acoustics Pavane DAC listening impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by jexby, May 15, 2016.

  1. AppleheadMay

    AppleheadMay Friend

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    Ah, nice! I always have that problem too, not much to try out here.
    Enjoy it though!
     
  2. simomat

    simomat New

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    Happy new Adagio owner here! For me it redefined the way I listen to music. I did't know my system was capable of delivering such a great amount of musical information.
    Everything is so clear, so focused. Soundstage is big, very big. I like the presentation were instruments are not forward but extend way to the back of the speakers.

    I have active speakers so my audio chain is very short and simple. But I do get much greater performance than before. Got rid of my tube preamp Estro Armonico Nordlys and Lector Audio Digicode S-192 DAC and enjoying a full digital path from sms-200 (Roon) to speakers.

    So far lacking a little bit of bass punch.

    On this subject I read conflicting opinions: some stating that bass is strong and hits hard and others that it is very clean and a little recessed.
    I am confirming this second opinion. Bass is fairly extended to the low end but lacks body.

    Someone suggested that It improves with keeping the unit on all the time. Will try that although I doubt it will make a difference.
     
  3. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    I have to agree with @simomat, after a few months of owning a level 2 pavane the difference even from Yggdrasil is quite impressive. The amount of space both vertically and horizontally is amazing. I love how information is presented in layers and each instrument is clearly in it's own layer. Those who have said the HD800 has a large but artificial sound state haven't heard them on the pavane.
    The bass is pretty much perfect but I will admit the Yggdrasil had a bit more body but not sure about control. With tubes I get a good amount bass that my solid state amps but then again they don't compete with the Stratus and I don't have a high end SS amp to test.

    All I can say for me pavane with stratus and HD800 sounds better than the audition I had with the HE1 last year.
     
  4. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    The accuracy of R2R DACs depends on having the resistors at a stable temperature. I can tell you it made a huge (subjective) difference with Modi Multibit, Yggdrasil, Pavane and Amethyst. Just about everyone here will agree. Also, this is measurable. Doesn't matter so much with delta-sigma or similar tech.

    For Metrum, standby mode is not enough - it only powers the front panel. You really need the blue input LED to be lit.

    Edit: I think there were some measurements of cold vs warm Yggdrasil (or another R2R) but I couldn't find them.
     
  5. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    I would say the Yggdrasil is much much or sensitive to temperature than the metrum unit. Yggdrasil needed a good couple of hours even days to bring it to max. The pavane for me sound pretty much the same always and I leave it on standby when I'm not using it.
     
  6. TonyNewman

    TonyNewman Validated by Tyll removing Utopia from WOF

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    My upgraded (L2) Pavane is now back in my rig and doing its thing for a few days. With it being absent for a few weeks while the work was carried out, I am a little bit skeptical if my audio memory is good enough to say much about the differences, but I will try. Please take this with a grain of salt as it was not a side by side A/B comparison, which would be a much more valid method (but who has 2 Pavanes sitting around - L1 and L2 ???).

    The music seems to have retained all the wonderful tone, timbre and musicality of the L1 Pavane, while adding some impact and punch. The L1 was a superb sounding DAC, and about the only criticism I had of it is that at times it could a little too laid back. Paired with the HEKv2 made this somewhat noticeable. The L2 seems to add some heft and thump when the music calls for it, without sacrificing the other sonic characteristics that I loved with the L1. A more dynamic sound overall. Kettle drums now have the punch and impact that was a little lacking in the L1.

    Others have spoken about an improved sound stage and separation between L1 and L2. Given the weeks between hearing the L1 and L2 I just can't say anything much about that - I suspect it is improved over the L1 - but without a side by side A/B test I wouldn't like to say for sure.

    For me, the improved dynamics makes the upgrade worthwhile in itself. It addresses the one area where I felt the Pavane L1 has something of a weakness. YMMV.

    My test chain is given below:

    PC->Schiit Eitr->Pavane L2->AGD M9 / Glenn 300B->Aeon / HD800S / HEKv2.

    With the upgrade to L2 the Pavane is now the best DAC I have ever heard.

    Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the Chord Dave with the Pavane L2 (or Adagio)? I would be very interested in hearing their thoughts.
     
  7. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Well, I was crazy enough to own the Yggdrasil and Pavane for a short time...

    Side by side with DAVE, no. I heard the DAVE when I owned and was using Yggdrasil daily. I might try to get a loaner eventually (or take the Pavane into the shop for an afternoon, if I have to).

    With that caveat, rough impressions: Pavane is softer, DAVE has sharp edges. Common to NOS vs OS generally. Sharpness was different in character, and generally more noticeable than on Yggdrasil. Both extremely musical and lacking hardness, glare etc. DAVE might have more 'ease' and/or a bit more transparent; this is hardest to evaluate without a proper A/B. Also, I only used the DAVE with the built-in headphone amp.

    Regarding transient sharpness: Yggdrasil is sharp like a regular kitchen knife, while DAVE is sharp like a samurai sword. I think the higher oversampling multiplier might be the reason. This also makes me curious to hear DAVE with vs without the Blu2 upsampler. Of course, if you buy a Blu2 then you will need both a second and third mortgage.

    Torq also did some comparisons in that thread, and there is a dedicated DAVE thread.
     
  8. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    ask Zach at ZMF if those Pavanes have the: DAC ONE or DAC TWO chips/modules inside.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  9. FredM

    FredM New

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    The pavane is available with 3 different DAC modules, with the so called DAC TWO modules being the latest. I suspect this $4300 model uses the first /older DAC modules, if that is the case the text on the site of the dealers should be updated (it mentions "new" DAC modules, I can understand the misinterpretation/confusion).

    Ps the later DAC TWO modules contain 2 DACs in 1 DAC modules, with the fpga integrated in the DAC TWO module. Where the (older) DAC module contains 1 DAC. On the Metrum site you can find a more accurate description.
     
  10. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Metrum site only lists one model of Pavane now, I assume the older level 1 and 2 were phased out. Too bad although I can see the logic now they have the Jade/Onyx line.
     
  11. FredM

    FredM New

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    Indeed, it looks like only the upgrade from an existing/previously purchased model is available: https://metrumacoustics.com/upgrades/
     
  12. simomat

    simomat New

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    I will receive soon my Adagio with the I2S input board that is replacing the USB. Modification is done directly by Metrum Acoustics. Also getting the MQA module.
    I am super happy with my Adagio I think it’s very detailed, amazing resolution, and spacious 3D sound and laid back presentation.
    I pair it with custom active speakers and srm-727 and Stax 009 as headphone rig.

    Will get Ambre, the new streamer from Metrum (not yeat available), or something alike to make it work.
    I am confident I have made a good decision getting rid of USB and wanted to try I2S, I believe I won’t regret it.
    In the meantime I can use spdif out from OPPO 203 to the Adagio (Roon Player).

    Will report back.
     
  13. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    A little experiment. For this I had to order cables with custom wiring:
    • XLR pin 2 (+ / hot / in phase) to RCA tip
    • XLR pin 3 (- / cold / out of phase) to RCA sleeve
    • XLR pin 1 (ground) to cable screen ONLY. NOT connected to RCA or other XLR pins
    Chain used:
    Pavane L2 > custom cables > Schiit SYS (input 1) > RCA > Pioneer M-22 > Audeze LCD-XC
    Pavane L2 > RCA > Schiit SYS (input 2) > RCA > Pioneer M-22 > Audeze LCD-XC

    Why the funky wiring? Because using only pins 1/2 from the XLR, you are wasting half the DAC modules (which drive pin 3). But by taking the signal from pins 2/3 you benefit from all the modules. The signal voltage is also higher (I think 2x) compared with a regular RCA level.

    The RCA outputs also use all the modules, but there is a summing circuit inbetween (similar to Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil). Less stuff in the signal path is usually good, so I wanted to compare directly these two options for driving a single-ended amp.

    Due to the different voltages, I was careful to increase/reduce the volume knob at the same time as toggling the SYS input selector, to avoid the bias of "louder is better". Unfortunately a proper blind / level matched comparison is not possible with the equipment which I have to hand.

    Listening conclusions with the balanced outputs?
    • Differences are not too subtle. Quite easy to distinguish in the first minute.
    • Definitely more micro stuff / nuances, more tangible texture to vocals, etc.
    • More clarity, by comparison the RCAs sound harder/forced and a bit congested especially in the mids.
    • Better separation of different tones and instruments.
    • Different overall tonality in mids and treble. Hard to put my finger on exactly what changes here. I think it is better.
    • A bit richer / sweeter sound.
    • Separation and clarity give the initial impression of a slightly leaner sound, but in fact strings (for example) have significantly more body and fullness.
    • Nicer for listening at lower levels (something I usually don't enjoy) but also more comfortable at high volume :headbang:
    • Slightly wider head stage?
    TL;DR, this is effectively an upgrade to a more refined DAC, while keeping similar fundamental character. It reminds me a bit of comparing with the Amethyst, although the step is bigger there.

    If you have a hardware balanced DAC (Pavane, Yggdrasil/Gungnir Multibit, many others...) and a single-ended amp, and your preamp is resistive (pot / stepper) then this is a no-brainer for me. With active or even TVC/AVC/LDR passive preamps, you need to be careful that the pre can handle the extra input level without distortion, or use attenuators.

    Interested in more data points if anyone else wants to try this. I would also encourage folks to try the SYS (or other cheap resistor-based passive pre) which is a very cheap way to improve transparency.
     
  14. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Sys very likely has the right and left channel 'sleeves' connected at the pot.
    When so, you effectively shorted L and R inverted outputs.
    (What happens when you short phase 1 and 2 in 3 phase electrical system --> BOOM!)

    I don't think that is good for the dac, unless it has high source resistance or transformers in output.

    Certainly poor advice to give to uninformed people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  15. Erikdayo

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    I have an Onyx and have been considering balanced to RCA transformers from Ampsandsound because of this, but using the transformer also means adding something to the signal path. I'm not really sure what the better option is in this case. I'll probably get the transformers made at some point and just see which I like better. This is to connect to a Kenzie Encore that will be arriving next Monday.

    Edit: By better option I mean just single ended out from the Onyx or XLR to RCA transformer. Not the custom cable option bengo is trying.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  16. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    Oh boy.
    You're running without a path to ground. This is definitely not recommended.
    Use a transformer.
     
  17. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I thought the Pavane and Adagio both already utilized transformers for the SE output? Is there still some sort of other circuitry nonsense before that? I'd have assumed this just kind of did the same thing as a separate XLR->RCA transformer box.

    Plus, I always felt the SE outputs on the higher end Metrum stuff sounded less colored and weird than using external boxes, at least the Jensen one.

    The mid-tier models don't use transformers for SE output at least, like Menuet or Onyx/Jade, AFAIK.
     
  18. Erikdayo

    Erikdayo Friend

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    Sounds like it may be worthwhile getting some transformer boxes in my case since I'm using the Onyx though I'll very likely be happy either way.

    Sorry to get slightly off topic since this thread is about the Pavane.
     
  19. StefanAC

    StefanAC Acquaintance

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    Can someone help me understand the difference in US and EU prices? If I buy directly on the Metrum webside, I have to pay about 6280 EUR incl. shipping and taxes. But if I buy on the ZMF webside and let them ship the Pavane back to Europe, the price is more like 4900 EUR incl. shipping and taxes. WTF?

    By the way - the custom cables @bengo uses really are a bad idea. I‘m surprised he hasn‘t damaged his Pavane by now.
     
  20. nachocheese70

    nachocheese70 Facebook Friend

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    I would double check with ZMF that the price includes import duties and VAT. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “taxes” referred only to local USA sales tax. My experience with international purchases is those fees are paid for by the buyer, based on the declared value. Given typical VAT in most EU countries, that would easily explain the difference.
     

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