Mr. Speakers ETHER Flow Headphone(?) Upgrade(?)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by OJneg, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    In all honesty, I prefer the Oppo PM headphones, and in particular the ones modded by @Audio Zenith better than @MrSpeakers headphones.

    IMO they are better built, sound better, look better, typically have less defects, and even cost a little less.

    The Ether C has issues, like most every other closed headphone, including a large null in the high mids and upper bass, and not so awesome distortion. The PM cans do not have those null issues and do not have the treble forwardness of the Ether cans (IMO).
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  2. zhouharvey

    zhouharvey PayPal’s $2 Sensible Enforcer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I guess he's just trying to be objective. Maybe the Flow C is real good? I don't know, but I would never buy it after seeing Tyll's review, whatever that review really intended to deliver...
     
  3. Kejar31

    Kejar31 Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    I agree that the sudden addition to the WOF seemed weird but I think people going so far as to say that Tyll was pressured to do so, seems unrealistic. Do you people really believe that Dan and MrSpeakers has enough pull to actually do what they are being accused of? I don’t….
     
  4. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I really like the Oppo cans myself. Mr Speakers tunings have never really fit right with me, like there's too much going on producing wobbly sound for the sake of objectively flatter FR? and the Ethers are no different. The Oppos lean a bit on the laid-back side of things, but they are an enjoyable listen for me and far more portable.
     
  5. Ryanr1987

    Ryanr1987 Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    UK
    I also think the Oppo headphones are a better buy than Dans phones. The PM-1 doesn't get much love and it's over priced but it has a liquidity and effortless sound, similar(At least from the upper mids down)to the HD650 that made me full on love with it.

    I'm just sick of seeing all these silly Playnars being priced so high. I'd take a well driven 650 over most of Audeze, Mrspeakers, Oppo's and Hifiman's range although I do have a soft spot for the LCD-2.1.
     
  6. GelockS

    GelockS Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    114
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I really just found the PM3s to be so boring... no excitement at all at least for the genres I listen to. Also, the sound stage is so narrow... But the price is right though. It's a fairly neutral signature for 300 or so. I definitely enjoy the Flows a lot more, plus they are more comfortable as well. Will probably sell them lol but still...
     
  7. zhouharvey

    zhouharvey PayPal’s $2 Sensible Enforcer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I speculate the reason for that WoF is:
    1. There's this possibility that Tyll found it is kind of cold outside, so he does not want to go to post office and spend like $30 to ship the Ether flow C back.
    2. And if he ships it back it will hurt Dan's feelings and generate gripes between their relationship.
    3. What's most important, he does not want to ship this $1800 headphone back, he wants to own (to be practical I won't say keep it as a reference, I rather use the word own. It seems that if he listed it on WoF then he can own it, but if he did not, he would need to ship it back to the manufacturer.) the headphone for a couple of years and enjoy it for both a reference when reviewing headphones and personal enjoyment.

    Anyways, that's just what I personally speculate so it may not be the transparent to Tyll's real thoughts, but that's what I can comment after seeing the post. Tyll did not send me a $1800 headphone for free so I guess I don't need to care about his feelings by posting this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  8. Shardnax

    Shardnax New

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    USA
    I think the problem there is that claims of their supposed superiority over dynamic drivers have yet to die off. Once more people come to the conclusion that nothing is perfect and everything has its weaknesses they ought to float into more appropriate prices. Or so I hope.
     
  9. Kejar31

    Kejar31 Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    But that doesn't make much sense either.. Isn't Tyll also the founder of headphone.com?? Seems to me he can access any headphone he wants at anytime
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  10. zhouharvey

    zhouharvey PayPal’s $2 Sensible Enforcer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Oh, right! That makes perfect sense then! Then Tyll is not a bad guy as I presumed.

    Well, his not making Ether C Flow on his WoF was reasonable, I still think his real bad move is to put it on WoF with a very weak explanation...
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    It's also entirely possible that Tyll heard something different from what some of us have heard. Given that @Kejar31 mentioned that Dan said the Ether C Flows at the Chicago meet he was at was defective, that @GelockS' pair that @ultrabike measured were "defective", and now that I think of it, what I heard earlier in the year could probably have been an earlier iteration, or also defective. What I heard was not neutral, or even studio monitor neutral. It was thin and bright, and impossible to listen to at higher volume levels. In comparison, the Ether C non-flow we had here on the loaner program might have been a bit lean, but it certainly wasn't anywhere as difficult as the Ether C Flow I heard a few months ago (before the big meet).

    I don't think Tyll is deaf or is being pushed a certain way. The only conclusion I have is that we heard different sounding headphones. This does happen. See this: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...-regarding-tonal-signature-of-headphones.547/

    Finally, I do feel the Oppo PM2 (more neutral than PM1) and PMx2 should be considered in the closed planar headphone discussions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Tyll is also much more tolerable of brighter headphones than I am, and I would guess many others on this site. For example, the HE1000 was pretty relaxing to him, whereas it's far from a relaxing listen to me. I find the PMx2 very neutral, but I think he finds it a bit dull up top for his tastes or possibly for a reference. I could be mixing things up and don't mean to put words in his mouth if I'm wrong. But, assuming that's true, and if you couple that with unit-to-unit variance and possibly defective units, you can start to piece it together. Plus, the Ether C Flow he measured fits that Olive/Welti curve decently, and I know Tyll thinks there is some good stuff going on with that.

    I believe people are overthinking this and assuming the worst, when you have to take all these relatively simple factors into account. I know I've certainly had moments where I felt mixed about a product, whether or not it was to my tastes, but over a few days developed more of a "big picture" narrative that made me rethink possible use cases for a product. And all of these tie back to what you heard and how you heard it.

    Besides, in all the times I've talked to Tyll in person, or having read most of his articles, he certainly does his own thing and thinks in his own way. It might not always fit your narrative or perspective, but he's the last guy that would strike me as the type to be influenced by outside, nefarious forces.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
  14. Phoebus7

    Phoebus7 New

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Has anyone compared Ether C with Beyerdynamic T5P, I am not willing to spend almost 2K on Ether if second hand t5p at 300$ can give me 95% of Ether sound. please help me decide with your past encounter with Beyerdyamic and Ether C. Thanks
     
  15. Delayeed

    Delayeed Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Funland
    Depends what you are using to drive them. T5P are marketed as mobile headphones so that should be an indication right there.
    I havent heard the T5Ps but the Ether Cs are just incredible but they need good synergy upstream gear as they are somewhat lean and compressed sounding (regarding dynamics). YMMW
     
  16. Tyll Hertsens

    Tyll Hertsens Grandpappy of the hobby - Special Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,805
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Bozeman Montana
    Home Page:
    Hi guys. It really is as simple as this: I went to pack them up to ship them back and I realized I would miss it as a reference against other sealed cans as they sounded so close to neutral to me. I didn't want them, but I did need them.

    Also, to be perfectly clear, if anyone thinks I need another pair of headphones around to "enjoy" you're f'ing nuts. I have more headphones than I know what to do with, and, because it feels like work now, I don't lust for headphones....ever. Closest I get is being pissed at Focal for not getting me a pair of Utopias yet. I don't want to listen to them, I want them to compare other headphones to.

    Anyhow, I make my own decisions, it would be pretty hard for a manufacturer to exert any influence over me other than how I experience their products.

    I would say that, in terms of my writings being untruthful relative to my actual feeling, I do try to do more applauding of good products than boos for bad ones. So, my internal opinions are usually more damning than what I write. A good example is MrSpeakers: I basically never reviewed his T50RP based headphones as I didn't like them much. Rather than reviewing them negatively I just shut up. That lets him deal with the market and his products without being damned by me. I think that's a good policy because it allows him time to create something better down the road...which he did.

    Have fun!
     
  17. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Hmm... take Tyll at his word, or use those same words to fuel my conspiracy theory addled confirmation bias? Decisions decisions... :p
     
  18. take

    take Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    185
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Suffolk County, NY

    You've definitely posted positive impressions, though. It seems from the comments that people took this to mean you felt that they were good.

    As a side note, I think that the qualifier that was added to the Innerfidelity page is valuable when analyzing the Ether C's presence on the WOF.

    > ...I think audiophile sensibilities are not well served by sealed headphones at this time, and you'd be better served by a much lower cost sealed headphone when you need the isolation, and save the big money for open headphones when you can listen in quiet spaces.​

    So sure, it made it to the WOF, but it also inspired him to damn the entire category. "Best of the bad" isn't too glorious of a title.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  19. Derf

    Derf Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I've no idea about any of this Tyll business, but I feel like the C upgrade was worth it for me. The original C was lacking, and the improved bass of the Flow helped make a fuller sound to me, while still retaining what I thought was a natural, accurate sound. Granted, I don't have much to compare it to, so take from that what you will.
     
  20. Phoebus7

    Phoebus7 New

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thanks for clarification and fully understand your point, may be good to create two categories of WOF , one for professional and one headphone normal consumers. When are you going to review Beyerdyanmic are they so bad that you are worried about giving negative comments :)
     

Share This Page