PRaT, euphonics, toe-tapping, bla bla

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by rayfalkner, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    --rants because I feel like venting some rants;

    Treble, bass, lows, mids, those can be measured objectively, it is very understandable (and for some, very easily audible) when a headphones is labeled as hot in treble or such, but... what the heck is this PRaT, euphonics, toe-tapping quality etc?
    Is there even an objective graph / measurement of how to differentiate between headphones that will make any human being tap his toes in euphoria vs a headphones that makes the world gray and turn you into a grumpy cat?

    Back then people dances and sing along to those low-fi radio of World War era too aren't they?
    I don't see any of my friend dancing along to that Bieber baby baby oohh~ song in karaoke room when played with modern sound system, instead they gave this cold stare with "seriously dude change the song or I'll kill your dog" expression.
    Does this mean those speakers there are of lesser quality because they fail to induce the toe-tapping, unlike WWII radio that plays Lili Marleen?

    Is it too much of a stretch to say that- when someone enforces his idea of a certain headphones are so euphonics, so toe-tapping, it is like persuading a MOBA-kid-that-somehow-knew-your-mother-so-well that Tetris is a much better game just because you like seeing colored blocks fell out of nowhere and you're certain every other human must be too.
     
  2. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    PRaT is what reviewers say when they like something. Usually when there's sizable flaw but it still sounds "musical", so the word PRaT seems appropriate. I'm sure (actually I know) folks make fun of us for using the term "plankton" and "microdynamics". They exist in a similar vein really; an intangible quality that makes you want to listen to the music. Some gear has it, some doesn't.

    That being said I can't say I've ever really experienced PRaT, but I understand the spirit of what someone is trying to communicate when they use the term.
     
  3. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    I understand your point, OJ, I really do; in fact I do understand what those reviewers want to convey too... Looks like I just can't stand when a gear got a universal stamp of approval for having nice PRaT or such while it is a highly subjective attribute. It is a matter of taste for god's sake.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    PRaT = musical engagement = gear sounds good you don't want to stop listening. It's going to be different for different people. I like gear that can reproduce the full contrast of tiny volume changes without any compression and low level information such as the tail end of decays without them being buried or dropped off. That to me is "PRaT".

    The term PRaT is actually slightly less offensive to me than "musical" or "transparent". None of these words are offensive to me if they are further elaborated with explanations of why something sounds musical or transparent or PRaTty.

    I am convinced the PRaT thing was an Obi-wan technique invented by the sales and marketing people at Naim and Linn to help sell their stuff, e.g. "Concentrate on the rhythm Luke, feel the PRaT, buy this gear." For the record, I do like Naim or Linn gear, especially at used prices. The compact Naim and Linn gear in the 90s tended to be more "musical" than the hefty American gear of that time, which had a tendency of being super powerful, but lacking nuance, and being harsh and sharp on the ears.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  5. Jeb

    Jeb Friend

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    Lol so true - I recently picked up a used Naim integrated amp and spent some time digging on the Naim forums prior to making that decision. It is true that in many of the threads the term PRaT appears in every other post. It must be infectious because I ended up using the term too. Until someone asked me what the hell I was on about.

    Amp is very good though. Extremely pratty - as promised.
     
  6. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    Hey, I like that word; PRaTty, maybe I should design a large eye-catchy stickers for it and slap it on the forehead of female singers that I don't want to stop listening, like Norah Jones for example.

    "God, miss, you're soooo PRaTty!" *slap stickers!
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm sure you guys are fully aware by now that I am full of contradictions. I've railed against the British Hi-Fi industrial-media complex, yet at the same time I praised some of their brands. I've discouraged use of words like musical, organic, natural, or transparent, but I've also used them on occasion. Or these three contradictory statements: you don't need that much power; more power is better, the first watt (or milliwatt) is the most important.

    A closer inspection reveals that it's all about context.
     
  8. keanex

    keanex Martian Bounty Hunter - Friend

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    I believe PRaT stands for "pace, rhythm, and attack" which I've always associated with quick headphones. A driver that's quick to create and release sounds and do so in a punchy manner. I find the Ad2000 to be stellar in these regards and it's probably why I love them so much.
     
  9. Jeb

    Jeb Friend

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    I do find that a certain level of bass weight/definition is needed for me to think of something as "toe tapping". I also tend to think of an overly warm or congested sound as particularly interfering in my sense of a track's pace and timing. I guess there are many objective weaknesses that could screw with what each of us consider important for conveying rhythm. As you say, context and describing the reasons for the reaction is really important.

    Can I ask what you would mean by organic - if you were to use it in a particular context?
     
  10. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    And sometimes, you do want to stop listening.

    I changed my media player because I was finding myself looking forward to turning stuff off at the end of the track instead of enjoying the music and wanting more. I eventually worked out that this was happening when sample rate conversion was going on. Up or down, it didn't matter: whatever that software was doing to my music (and I am usually very objectionable/ive about stuff like software, it was not getting my toes tapping.

    And toe tapping, or its absence, was very much a symptom. This is a much more subtle thing that PRaT. I really can't tell you what makes my toes tap, but I suspect that the PRaT guys (I don't use the word) probably can, and it probably does come with stuff like tight controlled bass and good treble. I wonder of it can actually be seen on a waterfall chart?
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    PRaT is un-detectable with current measurement methods. I'm working on it.

    The Balancing Act 300B is more organic sounding than the EC Studio? Don't know if that makes sense if you haven't listened to both amps.
     
  12. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Our top pirate scientists are working around the clock to discover the mysteries of PRaT and plankton.

    Meanwhile Nwavguy is sitting in his mother's basement jerking off to dScope readouts
     
  13. keanex

    keanex Martian Bounty Hunter - Friend

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    Why can't we jerk off to both? And Jessica Alba...Yeah her too.
     
  14. Jeb

    Jeb Friend

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    Hmm no unfortunately not - thinking about trying a used BA if one ever pops up in the EU at the right time/price.

    I appreciate the work of the pirate scientists in getting this stuff nailed down.
     
  15. n3rdling

    n3rdling Friend

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    PRaT is probably my most despised audio term. It's a relic from the pre-digital era, when it actually made sense for something like a turntable (being a mechanical device). Yes, HPs are also mechanical, but I haven't found any correlation between HPs lauded for their PRaT and how quick (accurate) said headphones are. Usually it's what OJ said ie. "I like this headphone"/"This headphone gets my toe tapping". If there's any correlation I suspect it's attributed to HPs with accentuated bass, which is dumb. Play a song through 2 HPs at the same time - the 'pace', 'rhythm', and 'timing' will result in both HPs being in sync. Ugh.
     
  16. Claritas

    Claritas Friend

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    I associate the term with some of the more driven, aggressive phones, regardless of whether it has some enjoyable aspects (M100, maybe HP50) or rather more unpleasant ones (HD25, maybe D2k).
     
  17. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    Another confession: Back then I bought my Grado partly because they say that it got nice PRaT...
    now that I think of it, maybe what they meant is actually the sound made when you farted when sitting on the floor but too lazy to lift your ass, you know like, "Prrraattt~"

    Yum, she's so pratty isn't she.
     
  18. Tyll Hertsens

    Tyll Hertsens Grandpappy of the hobby - Special Friend

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    Pace, Rhythm, and Timing, I believe.
     
  19. keanex

    keanex Martian Bounty Hunter - Friend

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    Ah yeah, thanks for the correction!
     

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