Schiit Yggdrasil V2 upgrade Technical Measurements

Discussion in 'Source Measurements' started by atomicbob, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    If you are unfamiliar with audio measurements please use a search engine with the query:
    "audio measurements" or "audio measurement handbook"
    Look for publications by Richard C. Cabot and also by Bob Metzler, both from Audio Precision. There are other useful publications as well. These will provide basic knowledge.
    Interpretation of the following measurements is beyond the scope of this post.


    The data presented were acquired as follows:

    1. PrismSound dScope III, picoscope 5243B
    2. DAC balanced (Bal) output XLR and unbalanced (SE) output RCA
    3. 100 Kohm load used for measurements
    4. dScope analyzer sample rate 48 KHz unless otherwise noted
    5. DAC 44.1 KHz sample rate, 24 bit depth unless otherwise noted
    6. USB cables – Schiit Pyst and Audioquest Forest
    7. SPDIF input - Tecnec 75 ohm SMPTE 259M/292M Digital Broadcast Cable
    8. Unbalance RCA cable - Worlds Best Cable Gotham GAC-2 or DH Labs Silver Sonic Air Matrix
    9. Balanced XLR cable - Canare L-4E6S starquad with Neutrik XLR connectors
    10. Vaunix Lab Brick USB hub
    11. Shielded 14AWG and 16AWG power cables


    Schiit yggdrasil V2 (updated from V1)
    Measurements commenced after 2 hours of warmup post installing upgrade PCBs.
    Measurements were performed over a period of 8 hours.

    Notable highlights:
    The glitch in V1 previously visible at -90 dBFS is gone in V2.
    With V2 Schiit has set a new reference for multiplying multibit DAC Gain Linearity even though V1 Gain Linearity was previously quite good for a multiplying multibit architecture DAC.

    @Torq impressions found here


    WARNING - PERSONAL OPINION FOLLOWS:
    Whether either the glitch at -90 dBFS or gain linearity deviation below -80 dBFS in V1 was audible to most of the listening population is highly debatable in my opinion.

    Index
    Post 1 - measurement setup description, highlights, comparison graphs V1 - V2
    Post 2 - SPDIF input - Balanced outputs part A
    Post 3 - SPDIF input - Balanced outputs part B
    Post 4 - SPDIF input - SE outputs part A
    Post 5 - SPDIF input - SE outputs part B
    Post 6 - SPDIF input - Balanced outputs 1 KHz resolution series
    Post 7 - SPDIF input - SE outputs 1 KHz resolutions series


    tl;dr

    Here are the measurements of the notable highlights for SPDIF input Balanced output


    1kHz @ -90dBFS
    20180219 Yggdrasil V1 - V2 comparison Bal 1 KHz -90 dBFS - spdif.PNG

    1 kHz gain linearity plotted as a transfer function

    20180219 Yggdrasil V1 - V2 comparison Bal 1 KHz gain transfer  - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz gain linearity ploted as deviation from the transfer function

    20180219 Yggdrasil V1 - V2 comparison Bal 1 KHz gain linearity  - spdif - x-axis changed.PNG

    yggdrasil V1 before the operation
    yggdrasil v1.jpg

    yggdrasil V2 after update
    yggdrasil v2.jpg

    yggdrasil V2 closeup of analog PCB
    yggdrasil v2 - closeup v2 analog PCB.jpg

    Updates included Analog V2, G5 USB, DSP firmware
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  2. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    SPDIF input balanced output measurements part A

    THD and THD+N vs Frequency
    20180219-02 Yggdrasil Bal THD THD+N - spdif.PNG

    THD and THD+N vs amplitude at 1 KHz
    20180219-03 Yggdrasil Bal THD THD+N vs amplitude - spdif.PNG

    IMD
    20180219-05 Yggdrasil Bal IMD - spdif.PNG

    Frequency Response
    20180219-06 Yggdrasil Bal FR - spdif.PNG

    Frequency Response (y-axis zoom)
    20180219-07 Yggdrasil Bal FR Y axis highly zoomed - spdif.PNG

    Inferred Jitter
    20180219-09 Yggdrasil Bal inferred jitter - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz gain linearity
    20180219-11 Yggdrasil Bal 1 KHz gain linearity + bandpass - spdif.PNG

    Imaging
    20180219-13 Yggdrasil Bal imaging - spdif.PNG

    Dynamic Range
    20180219-14 Yggdrasil Bal dynamic range - spdif.PNG

    Crosstalk
    20180219-15 Yggdrasil Bal crosstalk - spdif.PNG

     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    johnjen, landroni, Xecuter and 8 others like this.
  3. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    SPDIF input balanced output measurements part B

    50 Hz + 7000 Hz dual tone
    20180219-16 Yggdrasil Bal 50+7000Hz dual tone - spdif.png

    600 Hz + 1700 Hz dual tone
    20180219-17 Yggdrasil Bal 600+1700Hz dual tone - spdif.png

    19 + 20 KHz IMD
    20180219-18 Yggdrasil Bal 19+20KHz IMD - spdif.png

    1kHz @ -90dBFS
    20180219-19 Yggdrasil Bal 1 KHz -90 dBFS - spdif.PNG

    1kHz @ -70dBFS
    20180219-20 Yggdrasil Bal 1 KHz -70 dBFS - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz 0 dBFS spectrum
    20180219-21 Yggdrasil Bal 1 KHz 0 dBFS - spdif.PNG

    20 Hz square wave 0dBFS 6Vpp 10mS/div
    20180219-22 Yggdrasil Bal 20 Hz sqr -1 dBFS 6 Vpp 10mS div 100KHz BW - spdif .PNG

    20 Hz square wave 0dBFS 6Vpp 100uS/div
    20180219-23 Yggdrasil Bal 20 Hz sqr -1 dBFS 6 Vpp 100uS div 500KHz BW - spdif .PNG


     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    Clemmaster, johnjen, Dino and 7 others like this.
  4. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    SPDIF input SE output measurements part A

    THD and THD+N vs Frequency
    20180219-02 Yggdrasil SE THD THD+N - spdif.PNG

    THD and THD+N vs amplitude at 1 KHz

    20180219-03 Yggdrasil SE THD THD+N vs amplitude - spdif.PNG

    IMD

    20180219-05 Yggdrasil SE IMD - spdif.PNG

    Frequency Response

    20180219-06 Yggdrasil SE FR - spdif.PNG

    Frequency Response (y-axis zoom)

    20180219-07 Yggdrasil SE FR Y axis highly zoomed - spdif.PNG

    Inferred Jitter

    20180219-09 Yggdrasil SE inferred jitter - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz gain linearity

    20180219-11 Yggdrasil SE 1 KHz gain linearity + bandpass - spdif.PNG

    Imaging

    20180219-13 Yggdrasil SE imaging - spdif.PNG

    Dynamic Range

    20180219-14 Yggdrasil SE dynamic range - spdif.PNG

    Crosstalk

    20180219-15 Yggdrasil SE crosstalk - spdif.PNG
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    johnjen, Dino, k1arg and 5 others like this.
  5. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    SPDIF input SE output measurements part B

    50 Hz + 7000 Hz dual tone
    20180219-16 Yggdrasil SE 50+7000Hz dual tone - spdif.png

    600 Hz + 1700 Hz dual tone

    20180219-17 Yggdrasil SE 600+1700Hz dual tone - spdif.png

    19 + 20 KHz IMD

    20180219-18 Yggdrasil SE 19+20KHz IMD - spdif.png

    1kHz @ -90dBFS
    20180219-19 Yggdrasil SE 1 KHz -90 dBFS - spdif.PNG

    1kHz @ -70dBFS

    20180219-20 Yggdrasil SE 1 KHz -70 dBFS - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz 0 dBFS spectrum

    20180219-21 Yggdrasil SE 1 KHz 0 dBFS - spdif.PNG

    20 Hz square wave 0dBFS 6Vpp 10mS/div

    20180219-22 Yggdrasil SE 20 Hz sqr -1 dBFS 6 Vpp 10mS div 100KHz BW - spdif .PNG

    20 Hz square wave 0dBFS 6Vpp 500uS/div
    20180219-23 Yggdrasil SE 20 Hz sqr -1 dBFS 6 Vpp 100uS div 500KHz BW - spdif .PNG
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
    johnjen, Dino, k1arg and 4 others like this.
  6. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    SPDIF input - balanced outputs - 1 KHz resolution
    DAC equivalent of the limbo - how low can you go

    1 KHz sine 0 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz 0 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -70 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -70 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -90 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -90 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -100 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -100 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -110 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -110 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -120 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -120 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -130 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -130 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -140 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -140 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -144 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -144 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -145 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil Bal 1KHz -145 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    Damned impressive for a multiplying multibit architecture DAC.
    Well done Schiit!!

     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    Serious, johnjen, Dino and 14 others like this.
  7. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    SPDIF input - SE outputs - 1 KHz resolution
    DAC equivalent of the limbo - how low can you go

    1 KHz sine 0 dBFS 16K FFT
    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -0 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -70 dBFS 16K FFT

    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -70 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -90 dBFS 16K FFT

    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -90 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -100 dBFS 16K FFT

    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -100 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -110 dBFS 16K FFT

    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -110 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -120 dBFS 16K FFT

    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -120 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -130 dBFS 16K FFT

    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -130 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -134 dBFS 16K FFT

    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -134 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    1 KHz sine -135 dBFS 16K FFT

    20180219 Yggdrasil SE 1KHz -135 dBFS 16K FFT - spdif.PNG

    While not quite as low as balanced output, this is still impressive for single ended outputs (SE).
    Well done Schiit!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    johnjen, Dino, k1arg and 6 others like this.
  8. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    reserved 8/8
     
  9. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,289
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Is that even the same DAC?!
     
  10. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    920
    Dislikes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    93
    This is really boding well for the Gungnir Multibit Analog upgrade (whenever that's going to be announced.)
     
  11. defiant00

    defiant00 Rando

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    24
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    No kidding, inaudible or not, that is an impressive improvement in measurements.

    As always, thanks for all the measurements @atomicbob.
     
  12. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,127
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    Schiiiiiiiiit thats good!

    Will you be able to do temperature tracking measurements with your automated setup referenced in another post? Warm up time should be considerably shorter with the new output stage and I'd be curious to see what the results are.
     
  13. Negura

    Negura Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    173
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    London, UK
    Mixed bag, but that's no surprise to me.

    Channel Cross better, THD+N better
    IMD worse, THD a little worse, SNR about the same, slightly worse averaged over both channels,

    Interesting how THD+N is lower than THD on Channel A on V2.
     
    FutureFrenzy and A1Gear like this.
  14. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Likes Received:
    597
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Home Page:
    Huge thanks to @atomicbob for the time and effort involved in doing these properly. Certain nameless NW armchair experts could learn a lot by applying the same rigor you use. These measurements also tell a very different story.
     
  15. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,185
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    Noise of measurements on any given day could account for 1 to 2 dB. Be careful not to spit hairs over minutiae. The measurements from V1 were made in 2015.
     
    Dino and A1Gear like this.
  16. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Likes Received:
    613
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, PA
    Thank you @atomicbob

    And now I am looking forward to hearing it (when my turn in the queue bubbles to the top).
     
  17. frenchbat

    frenchbat BritishBat's arch enemy - Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,375
    Dislikes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    93
    True, with the f/w fixing the glitch, the v1 likely measures better on some things.
     
  18. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

    Friend MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,076
    Dislikes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    TX
    Great works!

    I have a couple of (probably) very silly questions.

    Q1. Are these results comparable with your previous post about Yggdrasil v1?

    Comparing measurement conditions between both posts, found slight disparities (Y1: Yggdrasil v1, Y2: Yggdrasil v2)
    • Y1: picoscope 2205 vs Y2: picoscope 5243B
    • Y1: cables to go USB cable vs Y2: Schiit Pyst and AQ Forest
    • Y2 post (this one) specified more information such as power cable or unbalanced rca cable (I am assuming you used the same ones for Y1 though)
    I have almost no idea whether these differences matter or not. But your another post of usb cables led me to worry about it.


    Q2. What is your interpretation between the jitter graph of Y1 and that of Y2? Y2 seems to control jitters better overall, but noise level around 11khz is much higher with Y2, too.
     
  19. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,127
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    @Vtory

    All the measurements posted are SPDIF input so I don't know where the USB cable is used but it doesn't seem super relevant. Probably just to connect the scope to a laptop for general operation and to transfer data.

    Different measurement hardware is a bigger deal but as long as both as calibrated correctly the data comparison should be relevant.
     
    Vtory likes this.
  20. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Singapore
    Probably post #8, considering he's upgraded to G5 USB. ;)
     
    Cspirou likes this.

Share This Page