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Sennheiser HD600 HD650 HD660S Analysis

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Oct 29, 2017.

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  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Some analysis for HD6** series in preparation for HD660.

    BLUE = HD600
    ORANGE = HD650KISS
    LT GREY = HD650 (historical data from 2016)
    Using same set of pads.
    HD6xx Frequency Response.png
    As we can see, frequency response differences are not significant. Pad wear, condition of foam, and how we wear the headphones are likely to play just as much a role. HD600 is brigher than the rest. The KISS is darker with marginally less sub-bass.

    The latest version of ARTA will show distortion in percentage.

    HD600 distortion
    HD600 distortion.png

    HD650KISS distortion
    HD650K distortion.png

    HD650 stock distortion (historical data from 2016)
    HD650 distortion.png

    Interesting. The overall bass distortion on the HD600 is lower than on the HD650! (HD650 does have lower third order below 40Hz). Is this why folks refer to the HD650 as being more veiled or having lower quality bass compared to the HD600?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
    purr1n, Oct 29, 2017
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    To confirm, here are FFTs 30Hz. Looks consistent with the measurements above.

    HD600
    HD600 30.png

    HD650K
    HD650K 30.png
     
    purr1n, Oct 29, 2017
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  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Here is 60Hz. HD600 handily wins here. Second order is significantly higher on the HD650K! Floor in the bass is just slightly lower on HD650K, possibly because of the dynamat mods on the back of the magnet.

    HD600
    HD600 60.png

    HD650K
    HD650K 60.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
    purr1n, Oct 29, 2017
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  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Here is 90Hz. Similar results as above.

    HD600 90.png
    HD650K 90.png

    I won't post 120Hz since both look similar. It's fair to say the HD600 generally outperforms the HD650/K in the bass, except for the sub bass, which we will be generous and say that it's a wash.

    I wouldn't say it's all bad for the HD650 / K. The higher second order of the HD650 does translate into a warming sound. Despite have very close bass response, the HD650KISS does have a warmer and slighty thicker presentation compared to the HD600
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
    purr1n, Oct 29, 2017
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  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    This one is a 500Hz square wave. I like to use this one to examine transient response and damping. This is a comparison between the HD600 and HD650K. Keep in mind the the KISS modded HD650K has less damping than the stock HD650. Subjectively, the HD650K sounds faster than a stock HD650, but it is still slower than an HD600. The difference in transient response between the HD600 and HD650KISS is not huge - it's actually pretty small.

    BLUE = HD600
    ORG = HD650KISS
    (I will grab a stock HD650 later and run the same measurement.)
    HD6xx damping.png

    Note that the HD650K undershoots at the rise, slightly overshoots at the second rise, and decays smoother than the HD600. It's fair to say that the HD600 is less damped than the HD650K. The HD600 is a bit more lively and sharp sounding than the HD650KISS. Just a bit. The mods bring them very close.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
    purr1n, Oct 29, 2017
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  6. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    I might have to revisit EQing the low end of my HD600...
     
    jowls, Oct 29, 2017
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  7. Koth Ganesh

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    FWIW, after doing the HD 650 mods, I mechanically removed the black foam pieces from the back of the HD 600 before I stopped myself from further modification. Since then, my 600 extends deeper in the bottom end than my 650M (together with @gurubhai 's insertion of Arctic cotton where the foam used to be).
     
    Koth Ganesh, Oct 29, 2017
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  8. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    Seems like a lot of other sources of measurements online show the HD650 having lower distortion than the HD600, have the distortion characteristics of the KISS modded HD650s been compared to the stock ones?
     
    chakku, Oct 30, 2017
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  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You can refer to post #1 (last two plots) to see that KISS and non KISS modded HD650s have the same distortion characteristics more or less.

    There is some evidence that HD650s of vintage 2015 and before might have been. Hard to say without more samples. Also keep in mind that the HD600 measured here is not current vintage. Current HD600s have the silver screen baffles.

    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...r-hd660s-speculation.5220/page-32#post-171193
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...r-hd660s-speculation.5220/page-33#post-171236
     
    purr1n, Oct 30, 2017
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  10. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

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    The old black mesh is more of the magic. IMO the veil is more apparent with the black mesh 650 but also I like them like that as that's how I heard them in 2006ish.
     
    Mr.Sneis, Oct 30, 2017
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  11. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    I should get the HD600's i bought in 2001 back from an extended loan. Haven't heard them in years...
     
    Riotvan, Oct 30, 2017
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  12. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    @Riotvan they're only $286 new from B&H at the moment...
     
    msommers, Oct 30, 2017
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  13. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Probably cheaper for him to get them in Europe when you factor in TVA and shipping.
     
    Cspirou, Oct 30, 2017
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  14. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Yeah i paid €270 for open box 650's and about the 600's i only have to go to my brother and pick them up, sorry if that wasn't clear :)
     
    Riotvan, Oct 30, 2017
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  15. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    The f**k with this? Can we keep this thread free of bullshit please? Can we bring back the dislike button? Really, do we need to discuss the pricing and availability of headphones in the analysis thread? Apologies for being grouchy.
     
    lm4der, Oct 30, 2017
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  16. brencho

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    we'll clean it up, worry not my grouchy friend!
     
    brencho, Oct 30, 2017
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  17. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    I didn't go part with my 600 (black paint model) and both the 650 came and went...it's just a matter of preference but the measuring may help me understand (i should probably say clarify in a different way) why I prefer one to the others.
     
    Walderstorn, Oct 30, 2017
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  18. westermac

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    HD600 FTW!

    Explains why when I owned both the HD600 and HD650 for awhile the HD600 just sounded punchier and cleaner in the bass (most noticeable for me on electronic music). The HD600 seemed to respond better to EQ down low as well. Not night and day difference, but apparent enough for me to only keep the HD600 around.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
    westermac, Oct 30, 2017
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  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Difference in sensitivity illustrated here. Magni 2 volume was set to same position for these measurements. Note that HD600 sensitivity is the same as the HD650K (in the mids). The HD660S is a good 4-6db louder than the HD650K with the same volume knob setting.

    ORANGE = HD650KISS
    YELLOW = HD660S
    HD660S sensitivity.png
     
    purr1n, Oct 30, 2017
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  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ORANGE = HD650KISS
    YELLOW = HD660S
    HD660S FR.png

    HD660S actually has a frequency response more simlar to the HD650KISS mod than HD600 or HD650.
     
    purr1n, Oct 30, 2017
    #20
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