The HQPlayer thread

Thanks for that. I think, given that I can get a newer model, new condition, for a couple hundred more, I'll probably just go that route.

Weird. Last time I checked, there were a bunch of M1 Mini's around for like $300. Maybe everyone got the memo that they're still good, and they dried up.

 

No kidding. Mini M1 is a great little machine, and the later Mn boxes don't seem to add much for a bunch of use cases, including HQPlayer.

 

Anyone tried HI-Player on mac os? Its 30 bucks a year on the app store with a little trial.

I've been using it for a while now, and it gets plenty of updates.
One of the few ways I can get podcasts in dsd /s

But seriously, it seems pretty good for someone like myself who just wanted to stream via airplay to a dac.

 

Also trying to figure out if Luxman's DA-06 can play nice with HQPlayer.

It's a Burr-Brown chip, so similar to the iFi DACs, which HQPlayer/Jussi recommends. As best I can tell, the Luxman can handle up to DSD128. But it's hard to tell if it will do its own oversampling no matter what or if it can be run "DSD Direct." There's an input to DAC chip flowchart here.

https://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=11

I think it shows that the DSD stream goes straight to the Burr-Brown chips (via USB only), but I don't have much experience with these charts.

Reason why I'm looking into the the DA-06 is that I recently picked up a Luxman phono stage that matches it, and I'd like to have some visual harmony among components. I might not actually go for the Lux--it has some mixed reviews and is an older unit (though pretty affordable now)--just looking into it.

 

It looks like DSD goes directly to the Burr-Brown chips, but to be on the safe side, why don’t you ask Jussi on one of the forums he frequents? (Miska on AudiophileStyle, Jussi Laako on Roon)?

Edit: this may help.

 

Since I have the iFi NEO iDSD (original version), sound has propelled into another dimension compared to what I had before:

The Meier DACCORD is a great DAC and similarly good as the NEO iDSD when used without upsampling (though quite different in style), but with no possibility to use SDM and 192 kHz maximum input rate, it’s not the perfect partner for HQPlayer.

I then got an SMSL D-6 just to play around with DSD a bit. Without upsampling, it is by far the worst DAC of the three, but not as bad as I had expected. Especially with 44.1/48 kHz material, there’s something strange going on in the very high treble, and I’m getting fatigued quite quickly, but it could have been worse. With HQPlayer SDM upsampling, it becomes a very respectable DAC, quite a bit better than the DACCORD. Still a little thin, maybe, but for the combined prices of the D-6, HQPlayer, even when counting in a small computer (maybe not a big one with a hefty graphics card), the results are really spectacular, IMHO.

Then I found the original version of the iFi NEO iDSD new for cheap online and couldn’t resist. A very good DAC indeed without upsampling already, but fed with SDM input, the sound is breathtaking. It has much more body than the D-6, and especially: Instrument placement (combined with the HEDD 2) is so much more exact that I was just marvelling at all those exact positions for the first few weeks. As this has a lot to do with exact timing, my guess is that the iFi’s clocks are just a lot better than those of the D-6.

I experimented a bit with feeding DSD512 from a Pi4, but found that while I liked it better than DSD256 from the Pi, DSD256 from my Zen Stream was even better (cleaner) than DSD512 from the Pi, at least with the original Pi PSU. Using a powerbank for the Pi and an iSilencer+, I couldn’t yet declare a clear winner, will have to revisit that at some time. It definitely shows how important a clean USB source is, even though the difference was a lot smaller at the NEO iDSD than at the D-6.

I then bought a used NVIDIA 2060 graphics card. With my old i3-6100, this allows me to use all SDM modulators at DSD256 (didn’t try DSD512 yet), and all filters except some extreme filters like sinc-L and sinc-long (didn’t test all yet).

My modulator favourite is ASDM7ECv2.

For a long time, I only listened with poly-sinc-gauss-long, because quick comparisons with earlier favourites showed that I liked it better than the rest.

However, I have recently discovered sinc-MGa. The HEDD 2 can use a bit of extra body, and this filter delivers that. sinc-M, which had been a favourite of mine with the DACCORD and the Clear Mg, provides body, too, but at the cost of precise transients, which are a strength of the HEDD 2, so it isn’t the best fit. sinc-MGa, however, has lots of weight/body and great transients, and I love it. It takes some time when switching source formats, but still acceptable. poly-sinc-gauss-long sounds a little clearer to me, with more focus on treble, but sinc-MGa just makes me feel better. Also, I think that timbre is even a bit better than before.

Anyway, many improvements in my system that I wouldn’t have thought possible, and not much money spent. That’s how it should be, ideally.

 

I've got an iFi Neo Stream that I'm going to try with HQ Player via the internal DAC. I wish iFi was transparent about which DAC in their line it's equivalent to. It seems cost equivalent to the iDSD Neo, but I've also seen them say it's a "convenience DAC," so maybe closer to the Zen or something?

They list every feature they can think of, then don't give you basic info on chipsets, etc. Quite annoying.

Whichever way, I'll try some of your settings and report back.

 

thanks for sharing.

ifi makes great sounding dacs, I have had the Neo idsd for about a year and a half before moving on to the pro idsd. Great dac. My wife teaches piano in school, she said out of all the dacs I have, nothing comes close to the ifi in terms of tonality for piano, as she said it “just sound like the real thing!!”

Since you are a hqplayer user, you should really try the dac correction for the Neo idsd. I know it makes a very noticeable improvement to my holo Cyan 2…

another thing I would encourage you can try is to use certified usb 3 cable for connecting from source device (pi or ifi zen stream) to the neo idsd. According to Miska, not only do usb 3.0 connector has better physical grip to the dac, usb 3.0 is also spec’d better than usb 2.0 in handling separation of data and power delivery and electrical noise leakage

https://a.co/d/4iDn0R2

I am now using this startech usb 3.0 cable to connect to my holo cyan 2 and also the ifi pro idsd. Replaces all my Supra Excalibur usb cables

 

Hello, I picked up HQplayer this weekend and have been trying to get up to speed. The DAC I am using is a Yggdrasil + GS2.

HQPlayer I have the following PCM settings.

• Filter 1x = poly-sinc-gauss-long
• Filter Nx = poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp
• Sample rate = 192
• Dither = NS9
• Bits = 20

I have a very novice question that I did not find in all my digging. In Windows, what should I set the Speaker Properties > Advanced > sample rate, bit depth too?

Currently, I have it 24-bit, 192000 Hz

 

You should ideally not be using your DAC for general windows system output at all - something else should be your default device. Then this setting is irrelevant as HQPlayer should use WASAPI or ASIO and have exclusive control of the DAC.

 

Kind of a moot point in Windows as long as you use WASAPI exclusive mode with HQPlayer, since when engaged in playback in that mode, by definition, Windows' mixer can't access the device, so it doesn't matter if you have Yggdrasil set as your default/mixer output device or not. But yes, the bit depth/sample rate setting in Windows mixer is irrelevant for WASAPI, and you definitely should use it for playback. As for ASIO, you're limited to emulation-ish solutions like ASIO4ALL, since there isn't an ASIO driver for Schiit stuff, at least post-Unison. Same deal, though.

 

Got it thanks for the info!

 

Would trying to get a PC (or Mac) that can do double duty for HQPlayer and gaming be a fool's errand?

I guess I'm mostly interested in trying Baldur's Gate 3, and/or it seems wasteful, somehow, to dedicate a whole machine to just HQPlayer. But maybe I'll be compromising performance for both by trying to use it for different things?

Sort of waiting to see if/when the new Mac Mini (supposedly with M4 chips) gets announced. Those are (again, supposedly) meant to have 16GB RAM standard, and a little googling suggests that would be enough to run BG3. I'm really only have a mild interest in gaming and am not super tech-y on the computer-side, TBH, but I am pretty curious about BG3. Seems like a Mac would get me there without too much fuss.

Then again, maybe I'd get more bank for my buck with a big PC tower, despite how ugly they are and the fan noise. It could maybe live in a different room than the audio system. Trying to keep it under $1k whichever way.

Or maybe a Mac Mini for HQPlayer and a secondhand PS5 is an equally good solution.... Thanks for any feedback.

 

That’s me with a 13600k and a 3080ti for both hqplayer, gaming and movies.

depending on your dac(s) and preferred settings hqplayer is not killer demanding.

My 13600k even without gpu, can run dsd256 with dac correction for the holo cyan 2 with pretty much any filters and modulators.

dsd512 works with no dac correction.

with the gpu, I can run dsd1024 with any modulators, no dac correction.

I have just sold my cyan 2, so my pc requirements are much lower now for hqplayer - dsd512, which my 13600k will have no trouble running even without gpu

https://imgur.com/a/zP3gi8p
My hqp pc is hidden behind the right corner bass trap. There is no noise really, cpu/gpu fan barely ever really cranked up for hqplayer

 

If you want to connect your DAC directly to the new computer, just note that Macs aren’t able to use DSD Direct, i.e. you have to use DoP (DSD over PCM). This limits you to half the bandwidth. For example, if the DAC’s USB port is able to do 768 kHz PCM/DSD512, you’ll be limited to DSD256 if you want to do DSD (no problem with PCM, of course).

This doesn’t affect you if you don’t connect the DAC to the computer, but send the upsampled data to some NAA that is in turn connected to the DAC.

 

Thanks for the reminder.

I’ll use my Neo Stream or the built-in streamer on my R26.

 

In that case, you might consider a refurb Mac Mini M1 just for HQP. It will give you DSD256 with a variety of filters and modulators, and with some (not all) allow for DAC corrections if Jussi has got around to create them for your DAC. A big gaming PC with a burly GPU can do more for HQP, but it is a lot more expensive and requires a lot more space.

 

I use my rig for work, some light gaming and HQPlayer. One consideration is going to be noise when used for critical listening, especially if your rig is on your desk.

I have a hybrid setup with a fanless cooler (NH-P1) and BeQuiet and Noctua fans. The fans can be turned off completely for listening or operate at low RPM such that they are inaudible. I can push maybe 90w in this way, and then step up to 200w with fans blasting. I'm not sure you could get an AIO to be as quiet, but if it's in another room that's obviously fine. Even on the floor it might be OK especially with music at a decent volume. Quiet passages may be an issue though.

 

I just picked up a used RME ADI-2FS DAC (AK 4493 version, I believe) for a decent price. It's on the list of recommend DACs on the HQPlayer webpage. I'd been thinking of a Gustard A-26 or Holo Cyan 2, but didn't much feel like spending $1k+ on another DAC. And the RME seems to measure fine--not that I care much--and get near universal praise.

I remember testing an RME a while back and thinking it was a good performer, basically neutral. Didn't wow me at the time, but I've also been wanting something that can be a solid all-in-one I can toss in a suitcase for extended stays elsewhere (which I do semi-regularly). I've been using an iFi Black Label Nano for the latter purpose, but, well, it's just okay, and I find it somehow clunky.

I also have my iFi Neo Stream here, but, man, I just don't get along with the internal DAC in that unit. It just seems so... limp. I should probably play around with HQPlayer settings with the Neo Stream, too, but I need to get a more powerful computer in first, b/c my work Lenovo laptop doesn't even like doing PCM conversion sometimes.

Anyway, hoping the RME is an improvement over the Neo internal DAC. And that it gets better when I can finally get a good HQPlayer chain up and running.

 

Okay, more questions for the boffins as I (hopefully) begin to dial in on an HQPlayer rig beyond my makeshift work laptop (which is hopelessly slow).

--Sounds like folks think DAC correction makes a notable difference? (What exactly is DAC correction? I can't seem to find a good explanation among Jussi's and Miska's various posts elsewhere.) Seems like I biffed slightly by picking up the RME over the Holo Cyan 2 or Gustard A26, as the latter two have DAC correction profiles and the RME does not. But, okay, I can sell the RME on as needed.

--My computer candidates right now are the base model new Mac Mini M4 (16GB) or some kind of desktop PC for around $700-800.

--If I'm shooting for DSD256 with some but not all filters and DAC correction enabled, are we thinking the new Mac Mini can do that?

--If not, can I accomplish the above with, say, a decent Intel CPU and a mid-range Nvidia GPU? Any suggestions on the latter? The 13600k and 3080ti specs listed above seem like a good start, but will I get it done for under $1k?

I've been looking into building my own PC, but it seems like a bit of a headache, so I might be more inclined to go pre-built. I'd likely store this big bulky box in a separate office room, so fan noise not necessarily an issue. The Mac Mini could, it seems, go about anywhere.

Thanks for any feedback/suggestions.