Turntable advice

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by Falcor, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    I'm kind of in the same boat. I have an SL-1200 MkII and I am at a fork in the road. I can either upgrade the bejeezus out of it, or I can get something else.

    A good friend suggested I drop $8k on a customized Garrard 301 and man, it sure would be nice to not have to do that but I'm listening.

    I'd like a little more focus and clarity than I currently get. Beyond that, I'm not sure what can be achieved. I'm currently rolling platter mats. Have been using a cork/rubber combo but recently got in a glass mat and an Achromat to compare. My table could likely use a recap just due to age, and there are many mods for 1200s. Just not sure if it's worth putting a couple grand into or if I need to do a different table altogether.
     
  2. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    If you’re committed to spending several thousand anyway, but don’t want to spend $8,000, look for a good condition used Technics SP-10.
     
  3. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    The opinions of the newer VPI tables here seem to center around the value aspect (quality unit/$) of their recent tables has decreased with Mat’s ascension. I personally have a Classic 1 that is a keeper for me. I’m a fan of the mass and the sound. I think the other recommendations here seem solid. I would also consider the MoFi tables too.

    I’m sure you have already contemplated the WHY aspect of vinyl. If not I would look at
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...before-going-down-the-vinyl-rabbit-hole.9461/

    If you are past this stage, then you need to consider what type of sound you are looking for here:
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...nough-of-those-spinners.51/page-18#post-85237

    What other equipment do you have? What’s your budget for cartridge (most important IMHO) and phonostage?
     
  4. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I liked the design ideas of the MoFi tables but I’ve heard too many negative real world experiences from people who tried them that I wouldn’t recommend them now.
     
  5. ogodei

    ogodei Friend

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    @FunHandsomeGoose, there are fans of VPI around here, just not many recent conversations posted. Like @gaspasser i'm a fan of the mass loaded sound, I have a Classic 4 I bought used and have never looked back. Im a fan of the VPI aluminum platter, I've tried multiple mats but I find the bare metal sounds best most of the time.

    Can you provide any more details of the sound you might prefer?
     
  6. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    VPI isn't alone in losing its value proposition. I loved my SOTA Saphire and Michell Orbe too, but current models cost more than two and half times what they did when I purchased mine.
     
  7. Fullalover

    Fullalover New

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    What things?
     
  8. Ziva

    Ziva Friend

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    Another vote for the VPI Classic. I have a VPI TNT (another beast) that I love. IIRC, the VPI criticisms here centered largely centered around 1) price inflation for new models 2) less material in the Prime plinth vs the Classic plinth and 3) the newer 3d printed/not metal tonearms. There’s also debate about the platters, but IIRC all the Classic 1 tables came with the aluminum platters which most folks here like best. The Classic 1s come up used around $2k relatively regularly, generally come with the metal arms, and IMO are a great value at that price. The used Classic 3s and 4s are a bit of a step up, but also a step up in price, and don’t come up as often.
     
  9. ogodei

    ogodei Friend

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    @Ziva, agreed on all that. For used Classics a fully tricked out 1 is probably the best price-to-performance ratio. I appreciate the added mass of the 4 but probably not worth it unless you want multiple arms.

    Looks like Matt ( VPI ) will be attending Axpona in person with 7 or 8 turntables including the production model of the 'standard' HW-40 direct drive. I'm interested to hear it but at $20,000 :eek: it's well beyond a reasonable value proposition for me.

    Now I wish I hadn't given my SL-1200 MkII away. Maybe @Erroneous will trade me for a Garrard 301 ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
  10. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Im going for a tricked out SL-1200 myself. I have M3D model, although not much difference between the models. You can upgrade as you go instead of all at once.
     
  11. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    All day every day and twice on Sundays. Sign me up!
     
  12. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    When they first came out there were user complaints about something related to setup. I can’t remember if it was the VTA or anti skate or something else. Not sure if that got corrected on later versions.

    I’ve also heard reliability issues from longer term owners. IIRC @Inoculator briefly had one and had issues that prompted a return and switch to Rega.

    Edit: And FWIW I’ve had a VPI Classic 2, and it is an excellent table. Gotta make sure you have a metal arm and not a 3D printed one, and the center clamp and periphery weight make a marked improvement, unfortunately they’re separate purchases and the periphery weight in particular is quite expensive. But I certainly wouldn’t call a Classic bad value, some of the more recent tables might be.
     
  13. Inoculator

    Inoculator Friend

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    Yeah I really was not a fan of that deck, returned within 24 hours. Motor was incredibly noisy. Didn't like the feel of the tonearm (I suppose bearing did not feel/sound too bad). Biggest issue, which I have to imagine is not a broader issue but instead a QC issue, is I was receiving ridiculously strong static shocks when handling the tonearm. Have never had static issues in my space, but kept getting shocked so bad I couldn't hold on to the tonearm.

    Went for a Rega P8 and was one of the best audio decisions I have ever made. Only regret is that I did not just save for a P10 (this was before the price increase) because I am sold on Regas higher end decks now and dream of upgrading down the road.
     
  14. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    A few quick takes:

    Technics SP10mk (and Technics decks generally): Very fuss-free and reliable. Totally sold speed. I've never seen my strobe even waver. Some hear "cogging" (minute speed corrections) as an issue that leads to a slightly jittery sound. I guess I've never heard that, but I also maybe wouldn't say direct-drive sounds "liquid." But, really, after living with my SP10mk2 for a couple years, I don't really listen for anything particularly. It works flawlessly, I hear no rumble, and it comes up to speed and stops pretty nearly instantly. It just works.

    Garrard 401: Mine's got some aftermarket mods. Heavy platter, big bearing, speed controller. Before these and a general tune-up, it rumbled pretty obviously. Now, as best as I can tell, it's basically quiet. Not as quiet as the Technics, no doubt. The benefit of the Garrard--due to the big ol' motor--is supposed to be a more rhythmic, propulsive sound. I guess I hear that, too, but these things, I feel, leave one pretty open to suggestion. It's like being told a wine taste likes fresh-cut grass, etc, and then tasting just that.

    I guess I've come to feel that the best turntable is the one that holds solid speed, is easy to use, and don't cause one any minor annoyances like rumble. These two decks do that for me. Beyond that, I've come to feel that the cartridge and tonearm make substantially more of a contribution to the overall sound (the tonearm surprisingly much so). I like to be able to swap tonearms, so haven't checked out VPI much, despite being curious about massy platters.

    If I was messing around with 1200s again, I'd look into replacing the arm. I think it's the main weak point of that deck. Funk Firm make an arm and kit.
     
  15. FunHandsomeGoose

    FunHandsomeGoose New

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    Thanks for the replies!

    All I have so far are Klipsch Heresy 3 speakers and Schiit Bifrost. Almost a blank slate. For the entire turntable + phonostage I would probably like to stay ~ $5000. Noticed folks really like the VPI Classic. I've seen the VPI Classic Signature HW but it is a little out of my price range.

    The George Merrill Polytable Super certainly looks like you get good bang for your buck, very interested in that.

    Looking to purchase a Decware Tube amp in the near future.

    Can't say I know what sound I would prefer. I will be getting a Class A Tube Amp in the near future to pair with efficient speakers if that changes anything. Strongly considering the Polytable Super.

    Appreciate the insight.
     
  16. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Give George a call, his contact info should be on the GEM website. Ask him any questions you have about the Polytable, let him know what you’re looking for. He’ll tell you if the Polytable is a good fit.

    From the GEM site: 901-751-3337
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  17. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    I always found it interesting that people on here disregarded Rega. They certainly have their quirks and sometimes I feel like Roy Gandy has lost the plot, but they do sound good. I completely disagree with the whole “less mass is better” approach and I don’t know why you would choose glass for your platter material (flywheel effect, shmywheel effect) but all the experiences I’ve had with Rega have been positive. Especially their higher end tables. I’m not sure I’d rush out and buy their amplifiers or speakers but I’d be happy to own a P8/10. Problem is the price has gone crazy in Australia and they aren’t the value proposition they once were.
     
  18. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    George Merrill is also an incredibly polite, classy guy to work with. A wealth of analog knowledge there. His Polytables seem really no-nonsense with lots of great design ideas. I don't love them aesthetically, but I think they make a lot of sense.
     
  19. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  20. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Looks like he's saying he could get extremely close to the performance of the Polytable with a Sol in most but not all areas. Sol was undoubtedly cheaper but you're going to be investing more time in proper setup, especially with the issues they had. I'm not saying that the Polytable is the best value turntable out there. I am saying it is worth considering for the price range. I did hear in, but not in my own system, and I liked it a lot. I couldn't say it's necessarily better or worse than a well set up VPI Classic, but they have different design philosophies so like many things in the turntable world it comes down to what fits your budget and preferences.

    I tend to prefer well implemented direct drives in general but a good portion of higher end turntables are belt driven.
     

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