What's a low cost entry into turntables look like

That reminds me Paul, I still have it sitting around when I got it back from CT. If someone wants to hear it talk to Paul and I can send it out for you.

 

This is what I have after I upgraded my Project Debut Carbon. This is an already upgraded version (DC PSU, Speed, and Acrylic platter), a great value at that price, and great number of colours. Be aware, you still need a phono pre.

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-220555-pro-ject-debut-carbon-esprit-sb-turntable.aspx

 

Hi folks.

The turntable business (IMO) seems to being going through a renaissance - very similar to the Swiss watch biz.

Once thought dead due to the quartz watch revolution, the Swiss mechanical watchmakers were on the ropes for years.

CDs did the same thing for turntables.

That said, interest in vinyl has been steadily on the rise along with a new interest in "audiophile" tables.

You don't buy a Rolex because you want to keep perfect time - you have a mobile phone for that. That said, Rolex makes a quality watch - great materials, fit & finish - but it's really a statement - there are plenty of other solid timekeeping watches you can buy for well under $500.00 - both Quartz or mechanical. But forget about Rolex . . . there are "better" brands of watches like Patek Philippe, Breguet, Greubel Forsey, etc. Your paying more for complications, exotic metals & hair springs that sell for $500,000+ . . . just like turntables.
It's all good, just buy what you want.

I purchased a pair of Technics SL-1800 decks back in 1978 and guess what? They still run like a champs - BUT there's no MDF (medium density fiberboard a/k/a glued sawdust) or straight particle board (glued wood chips) used in the construction. Amazing. I paid about $200 each back in the day - about $700 in 2015 dollars.

I was contemplating a new VPI deck, but the MDF construction turned me off. VPI's "Reference" series uses acrylic / resin plinths as opposed to MDF, but I'm not conviced they merit the premium price - but they look great and I'm sure they're solid performers.

In sum, just about any table in the $300-$600 range will be fine - they all use all MDF (medium density fiberboard) for chassis (plinths) and belt drives.

The main things to consider is a good amp or receiver with at least 75 watts per channel into 8 ohms, a good set of speakers that you like, appropriate placement and a good cartridge such as an Ortofon Red or Blue - but there are hundreds of other choices . . . it all depends on your personal preference.

I'd love to see a double-blind study performed with 2,000 people walking into an acoustic perfect listening room and having to guess between turntable A, B, C or D. Just sayin'

 

TBF MDF has a lot of really positive properties as far as inertness goes, and it's humidity stable. It's not glamorous, but it's good material for turntables.

In my experience so long as the table is acceptably stable speed, has lowish wow and flutter, and the arm is within the optimal compliance range of the cart, I hear the cart a lot more than the table, but i've never had a SUPER high end table.

 

It's a cost-cutting / profit increasing material - and yes, it does work.

However, if MDF was so good, why doesn't VPI use it on their "Reference" series?

 

Fair point, I'm not saying there aren't better materials, only that MDF works and it works well. My favorite decks thus far have been sprung suspended heavy metal platforms personally, ala Thorens/Linn. Though I'm not convinced it wasn't just good arms and carts I liked the sound of.

 

Yes it does work. Period.

I have a 1978 Sansui 9090DB receiver - still sounds fabulous but I'm sending it out for a total re-cap. The cabinet is particle board with real wood veneer - still in good shape, but I'm contemplating getting a new cabinet made from aged, real wood. I have a cabinet quote for $300 - perhaps it'll be more.

It's about to be 2016 - you'd think there would be newer polymers used in TT plinths e.g., acrylic is good - and I've seen it sandwiched between various resins in a few TT designs. For a <$2,000 "audiophile" table, Merrill comes to mind:

http://www.hifigem.com

That site has some good info on TT philosophy /design - the guy is an old-school genius.

BTW, Rega, Pro Ject, U-Turn, Clear Audio, etc. all offer fine, entry-level decks.

I do like U-Turn's approach in regards to value. I'd love to hear one equipped with say, an Ortifon Blue cartridge vs. a $2,000 deck similarly equipped. Now that would be interesting.

Back to my original response, it's crazy that folks are paying thousands of dollars for inexpensive MDF plinth construction. At least let the price reflect the materials used.

I believe I'd seriously consider buying a new VPI Traveler or similarly priced deck if materials other than MDF were used.

 

I'd love to see this. And especially designed by Moffat.

 

Reminds me of people claiming MDF is the best material evar for speakers. Heavy, but not rigid.

 

For the record, I'm not claiming MDF is the best material, it's a good material that easy to manufacture and it shouldn't be demonized if it's cheap and does the job well.

 

By no means...I would applaud the entry-Regas and Pro-jects. Any deck at that price is going to have compromises.

I'm actually really curious to hear the U-Turn. I remember being skeptical when they came out with the Kickstarter a while back but it's awesome to see they delivered.

 

Agree with the mass statement.

What about the Pro-Ject 2Xpression in Acrylic? It weighs 7.6 kg in Acrylic plinth vs. your 8 kg MDF TT- quite similar.

Pro-Ject Platters:

Pro-Ject (ite)acrylic platter = 1.2kg
Pro-Ject (it) acrylic platter = 1.3kg
Pro-Ject MDF platter = 2kg

But why use an MDF platter? Cost vs. Profit. That 2Xpression would be sweet with a massive aluminum platter.

I see no scientific methodology regarding Pro-Ject's choice of component materials. If MDF is the best why use aluminum in a platter, or acrylic? Is this a price-point decision? I guess there is no one "best" material.

 

Eveyone's made valid points. Thanks.

If we all got together and decided to to make turntables, I'd like to believe we'd make product decisions based on a unifying philosophy:

1. Plinth construction
2. Platter construction
3. Motor / drive type (in or external)
4. Tonearms - offer specific models based on features, benefits & price.
5. Headshell & cartridge - same as the tonearm or customer can opt out.

IMO, a company should be able to offer a solid table with quality materials at any given price point.

I apologize in advance to the MDF industry.

BTY, I have no problem with MDF in a $400 or less entry-level table. That's why it's entry-level - it gets the job done.

 

This review has a pretty good comparison.

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-turntable/

That being said the original measurements were made a while ago and I believe that U-Turn audio has made improvements to keep their tables in spec. If there is one thing seriously lacking in turntable reviews it's measurements.

 

I went with a U-Turn because it was affordable, I liked the minimalist aesthetics of it, and the minimalist design of it as well. Everything is easily replaced on it so I saw it as a table that I could upgrade over time if the company came out with incremental upgrades. It's nowhere near a high-end tt, but I've had mine for over a year and it's been reliable. For $200 I have no complaints.

 

Two ways to look at mass: high mass is more difficult to excite, but it also release the energy just as slowly. Low mass is easy to excite, but it releases the energy just as quickly. Pick your poison.

 

Massy and Suspended

 

I only know of TTVJ which isn't exactly cheap, is there a good online retailer for these other brands of modern TT manafacturers?
I'd rather not buy something really old, although I'm certainly not opposed to buying something old/used.