Yggdrasil MIB was: Jason+Marv Pyrate Edition 11001B

As reviews have been a little sparse on the MIB, I thought I'd share something I saw on the Schiit Heads Facebook group recently, with some minor grammar editing. THESE ARE NOT MY IMPRESSIONS

tl;dr: The individual compared directly in their own system the LIM to the MIB and kept the MIB.

Spoiler: The individual's chain

Streamer: Eversolo DMP-A6 - Running Roon
CD Transport: Audiolab 9000CDT
Preamp: Schiit Kara
Amp: NAD C298
Speakers: JBL L100 Classic 75th Anniversary
Interconnects and DIgital Cables: QED Reference 40
Speaker Cable: QED Genesis Silver Spiral - Bi-Wire Pairs

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"Time for a Yggdrasil LIM vs MIB Thunderdome death match.

Two DAC's enter.... One DAC leaves!

A quick comment on why I evaluated both models . . .
I had purchased a LIM (Less Is More) model and the very next day the MIB (More Is Better) model was announced as available. Knowing that I was still within the 15 day trial, I ordered a MIB figuring I'd listen to both models and keep the one I preferred. To me the difference in price wasn't enough to be part of the decision, and I wanted to compare both. I contacted Schiit customer service to confirm this was going work and they said it would be no problem, in fact they said if I ended up with the more expensive model, the restocking fee would be waived. Schiit is just great to work with, better than most in my opinion.

Right up front I'm going to say that these two models are more alike than not alike. Any differences that I heard were relatively small, and should be, considering the only real difference is the actual internal DAC's used in the design. (16 bit TI 8812's vs 20 bit TI 11001B's). Also differences that I heard may be different than what someone else hears, personal tastes, system matching etc . . . No doubt there are a couple of folks around that will scoff that I heard any difference at all, "a typical deluded audiophile" no doubt. Anyway, I'm posting what I at least thought I heard in my system, in my room, with my personal tastes. I used the same interconnects and the entire chain for this. I just switched the cables between the two units and I left both unit powered up the whole time.

I decided to keep the MIB, in fact the LIM is packed up and off to Schiit on an RMA. To be clear, I could live happily with either. If I had a LIM and heard the MIB afterwards, I wouldn't be sending off the LIM for an $800 update to MIB, there's just not enough to warrant that cost imo.

When I first ordered the MIB I thought that I would actually end up keeping the LIM in the end, figuring it would be smoother, less fatiguing model but that wasn't the case. Both models are very, very musical and smooth to my ears but there are small differences. I feel that the MIB has a bit more "open" sound, maybe a bit more sparkle and air than the LIM. If you play a song you know well, then switch from the LIM to MIB it just seems like the MIB is picking up a bit more detail, or removing a tiny veil compared to the LIM....maybe not more detail but making it more obvious if that makes sense. I also feel like the LIM is just a bit more loose in the bass. It is still a champ in that region, but the MIB seemed a bit tighter and more controlled in the bass, as if the bass was more snappy and punchy. Again, these are small differences.

Another area I preferred the MIB is on songs that faded out or had reverberation effects. When something had an echo or reverb effect that faded into the background, that effect seemed to fade away or decay longer into the background. Wow these are tiny differences but they were there to my ears. Like I said, the MIB was not overly bright or hyper detailed, it was a smooth operator that just added a bit more detail without giving up that smooth sound the LIM excels at. In fact, if a system had an overly bright sound the LIM may be a better option...it all depends on the system and the listener of course.

Nothing much else to say, made my decision and I love the DAC. I feel like the Yggdrasil is an amazing bargain in audio. With all the multi-ten thousand dollar dacs out there, it doesn't seem like the Yggdrasil is giving up much if anything at all. And to be repetitive, if I had a LIM I'd live happily with it and wouldn't be changing to a MIB. I've never heard the OG so can't comment on that model."

 

Now that it’s out in the wild, any chance of a loaner tour?

 

For those of you waiting on MIB boards. I was told those will be available in about a month or two (from now). I am looking forward to purchasing those. That being said, I decided to send my Yggdrasil in for the chassis upgrade in the interim.

Cheers,
-Rob

 

I just listened to my MIB for the first time. So take this with a HUGE grain of salt I might change my mind 180 degrees.

HOT TAKE first impression:

Switching to the MIB I immediately noticed a sense of gentleness to the sound that was really really beautiful, I'd call it delicate. Cymbals especially are rendered much more faithfully than the A2/OG. Soundstage seemed a bit smaller. Imaging seemed a bit worse. But I noticed this gentleness made me kind of fall into the music and just listen to the music more than with the A2/OG (because I've been tube rolling trying to make the Stellaris work with my modded ortho iems and my brain is kind of gear sound focussed sadly at the moment.) which was really nice. But the LIM pulled this trick on me too and I wound up preferring the A2/OG for many reasons. Not that the MIB sounds like the LIM. It doesn't. So maybe more expressive with a delicate and gentle take to transients and attacks but a bit less resolving and smaller soundstage with inferior imaging. Much tighter bass though also on the MIBj

I fel tlike I was missing something I had gained in my last tube setup with the Stellris, so I switched back to the A2/OG,

Switching back to the A2/OG I didn't wind up feeling like I was missing anything though. But I did hear the sharper attacks and more incisive general leading edges, not just in the treble, but throughout the spectrum. Il wouldn't call it sharp though, just not feather like like the MIB. And the bass became phatter.

I loved that sense of gentleness, if I find that the MIB doesn't loose any resolution or grit or sense of clarity, it might be a real winner. But it might also sound less resolving and clear than the A2/OG and listening to it I might miss the faster sound of the A2/OG

Thats' the word - faster, not sharp, just sharper, or faster. Because the A2/og isn't sharp to me in general.

I'll have to setup a switcher to compare more because I have to do a lot of rigamarole to pull the MIB out to swap cables and it makes my brain hurt and then I don't know wtf I'm hearing. I'm not sure when I'll do that as then I'll know there's a 2nd switcher in the chain all the time which will annoy me. haha.

I may wait to really compare them until I'm happy with the Stellaris or feel stable with it and know its' sound. And I just got the Drop TA-84 which is a LOVELY amp esp for the price. And I have to setup my. Zana Deux. And find my peace with God also.

I think that's all I got for now.

 

I had gungnir multibit and now i own yggdrasil GS and to my ears GS is better in terms of plankton than gungnir multibit a2.

But otherwise an excellent chart :⁠-⁠)

 

Any more thoughts on MIB now that you’ve had it for a while?

 

I actually havne't listened to it since that one time. A lot of things have happened lately that have made me kind of gear adverse because I feel too focused on the gear. It started about a year and a half ago with all kinds of noise issue in my system in my room that Troubleshooted for that whole time taking it all the way in every direction possible and it wound up just not even making sense like there is a phantom in my power here. But the noise made me think about the gear way too much and I still haven't recovered from that to the level of simple joy about it that. I had before. But still, then I got a Stellaris and a Stratus and neither one sounds the way the vocal lovers of these amps here describe them and I trusted these impressions and so I have spent literally thousands on tubes trying to find the sound that people describe, but I still don't think I have and it's just really frustrating. And I feel totally worn out about gear. Right now I'm listening to the Drop TA-84 while the Stratus and EC ZDS. sit next to it. Because it was cheap and it's small and simple but also sounds really good and I don't feel as gear focussed listening to it.

I think getting too gear focussed is a real danger in this hobby and has to be balanced out somehow, maybe by just listening to simple rigs sometimes. I don't know.

At the same time there are times when I'm really excited about hearing new amps.

But ii also don't know my amps well enough to be DAC switching and I'm not wanting a second switcher in the chain right now that would let me just go back and forth. Otherwise Ihave to pull the MIB out of the shelf an reach through a little crack to swap cables.

I'm glad I bought it, but I don't know when I'll get to it. I want to, just to share impressions, but it's' too much right now.

I gotta just enjoy music not analyze DAC's right now...

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with your system. I remember you chasing down that noise. Please don't take my post as pressure, I just appreciate your thoughts on these things, especially as you do use the A2 as your reference. I hope you get back to a point where the listening is fully enjoyable again.

 

I totally love music still. Always! I can't stop listening to music. I just go through phases of feeling distracted and frustrated by the gear rather than it enhancing my experience. But I'm at the same time really excited to hear new amps because I can't get this vision of this sound I'm looking for out of my head and I have to realize it in reality, I know its' possible, I just don't know where to find it. It's just DAC comparisons, changing the way my whole rig sounds feels overwhelming.

You're not pressuring me, no worries! I want to offer some better impressions for SBAF. I will when I can.

 

I went through the same thing many years ago when I was into car audio. One day it was like "f**k this. I forgot how to enjoy music". Since then I don't take the gear as seriously. Yeah it's still super cool and I love trying new stuff but generally I keep comparisons to like/don't like and leave it at that.

 

Oh, I'm never gonna stop the flowery language! But yes, we need to keep perspective and that's hard to do when you spend so much money and time on the gear.

I'm still having a lot of fun with audio gear, and I always will I think, it's just a phase, mostly from all my struggles with noise which is such a downer especially when you spend hours and hours troubleshooting and can't figure it out.

 

Try an isolation transformer, maybe? The Equi=Core stuff is pretty cheap and can make nice improvements depending on your power situation.

 

His situation is exponentially more vexing than something an isolation xformer can help with unfortunately.

 

I have an Equi=Core here, doesn't change anything. I don’t want to derail the thread. I'l probably write up everything I've gone through at some point for others to see in its own thread or blog.

 

If you can/want-to elaborate on the above, I'd appreciate it.

For me, preferring live unamplified music, the gear sort of makes me feel like the Bionic Woman - everything more "revealed." Not necessarily "real", maybe "real" with just a hit of LSD? (not that I ever or condone

 

Well I have spent years modifying orthos, and in the process of doing this, you hear them sound a lot of different ways. You hear what the driver is capable of in every aspect of sound for example, you hear them put out the best treble response the driver is capable of, but when it is doing this, it has no bass, or you hear amazing soundstaging or resolution, but the tone is off, or you hear incredible bass response but the midrange is sucked out. All by changing the acoustics and thus changing how the driver is moving and I just can't say enough about the magic I have heard with orthos. It's just getting it all all happen at once that is the challenge. My modded Audeze's are a good first step for me, moreso my RD-4. And my RD-S12. So in hearing all these different potentials, I have a sound that I know is possible from ortho driver headphones and iems with the right amp and DAC. I have a sound in my imagination, just like I have images in my imagination that drive me to go out and photograph trying to make images that capture the feeling of the images I see in my imagination. I hear a sound the same way. It's doesn't have to do with live or studio or anything like that, I'm just talking about the sound a headphone rig is capable of having. I'm very close to being really happy with my RD-S12 and the tube amps I have but the sound in my imagination is beyond what I'm hearing now. And I know you probably think it's not achievable, but I believe it is, and if I had the health I would put a team of smart people together and make my own orthos from scratch and work for years to make it a reality. But I am way too sick to do that now unfortunately. Someday hopefully.

 

I purchased an MIB and got it last week. If I can read SN’s, it looks like there around 40 of these out in the wild. I’m wondering why there aren’t more impressions around? Is there a consensus as to warm-up period? The MIB seems to still be getting more focused and sounding sweeter as the days go by. I’m on day 4 now.

 

I think some of us are waiting for the boards to be sold. Also, around $750-800 they’ll probably be initially for those who like to be on the cutting edge.

 

All of my impressions here are done with 2-channel since it is much easier to evaluate sources this way. I still have and enjoy headphones.

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My system (which has been consistent for a several months):

Elekit TU-8800 modified
Klipsch Forte I with ALK crossover

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I purchased Yggdrasil MIB new and left it on and waited over a couple weeks to form impressions.


I compared directly to SFD-1 mkii via AES input from Roon (ROCK NUC server) Redbook FLAC —> EtherRegen —> Pi2AES powered with Noise Nuke


Tracks used for digital comparison from Medeski, Martin & Wood “Radiolarians III”, which is a mix of acoustic and electric jazz.


Yggdrasil MIB listening notes:

-Expansive imaging laterally with row 5 positioning

-Clear (impressively), well-defined images

-Mildly rounded transients

-Fullness from low mids on down, this doesn’t translate as dark sounding like LIM. Combined with clarity throughout this evokes a more visceral response, more toe-tapping and for me more engagement

-Big sense of space, open and full sounding with reverb cues all around

-Acoustic bass: I easily note sound of finger pluck resonance off of strings

-Piano: I easily hear hammer strike and sustain of notes

-Super detailed but due to slightly rounded transients there is no cringing or etch. This is the delicate descriptor that was used previously.

-Very low tension and nice ease to the overall presentation

-Easily to listen to and forget about distractions: passes phone test i.e. I’m not checking SBAF or Discord, news, etc while listening.


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SFD1-mkii listening notes in comparison:

-Narrower soundstage laterally with more shallow depth.

-Row 7-8 presentation

-Even more rounded transients

-I finally hear the grunge that people have mentioned elsewhere with less clarity noted

-Less full sounding but not lean by any stretch

-Great value for used prices if you have mainly red book files, CDs.

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Now for the more interesting comparison. I feel like my analog setup is pretty dialed-in for my preferences and this noticeable delta between analog and digital led to my pursuing a DAC upgrade. I didn’t want to go hi-end, big money. I wanted something less etched (Yggdrasil 1 and OG therefore out) and more analog sounding. Similar to LIM, but more detailed and less dark. After reading Marv’s thoughts and charts it looked like MIB might be the best solution to try.


My analog chain is:
VPI Classic 1 with Hana ML cartridge
Allnic H1201

I used MMW “Friday Afternoon In The Universe” new vinyl pressing (2023) vs red book FLAC burned from my CD (purchased in 1996!).

My listening notes from the comparison:

Wow, pretty damn close! Same big, full, and detailed sound. Yggdrasil has a little more detail, analog has more rounded transients. Analog has row 10 presentation with much, much deeper soundstage. The depth of soundstage is why I love analog. Both have similar width of stage.

Overall, I’m very pleased with how MIB fits into my system and preferences. I have owned Yggdrasil A1, GS, A2 (OG) and LIM previously and I feel the MIB is the best combination of all of the positive attributes of all of the Yggdrasil models. The + chassis is really nice looking and a much better size.

I have not owned or even heard any DACs above this price point and therefore can’t offer any comparisons. Frankly, the fact it easily trades blows with my higher (used) priced analog setup is a win for me.

 

This looks to be a perfect fit for my PAP Quintet Horn 1 15's.
With my EC Studio Junior 2A3 as pre into XA25 they sound great, but a little etched and shouty in the upper mids and generally colored and lacking in timbre.
I assume that I can compare the impact the MiB has on your woofer and the horn tweeter? Or to re-frase the question, the bass does not sound to dry?

Edit: And one has to wonder how the Yggi would sound with a tube output stage, would it get depth and width? Would it be too smooth etc...