ZMF New Headphones: Vérité and Aeolus

Hi ! Regarding what you said about Verite's "pop" and "pluck" missing from string instruments - well that is exactly what I am looking for because my hearing nerve is damaged and these sounds come across as needle pricks LOL. But on the other hand, I hear often that Verite is more aggressive sounding VS Aeolus which is more laid back. So for me this is a contradictory statement. Which one between these two would you recommend based on my preference to less dynamics in treble (the stabbing "plucks") ? Thanks.

 

The 8k peak with the open using the verite pads is really fatiguing to me. It cuts through like a son of a bitch.

That is consistent with different pairings. I just eq that down by 3dB (or use the universe pads if you're okay with those).

 

I marvel at the variability of people's hearing. I don't disbelieve posts here saying there is a recession in the VO's mids, or an 8K peak.

I hear none of that. Maybe it's my amps (strong, slightly warm, dynamic SS amps), or maybe my hearing is trash and I don't know it.

What I hear most of all from my silkwood VO is the often beautiful sound of music. Every genre sounds so "there" to me on this headphone.

PS: It's not just the Verite this happens with. One of my favorite headphones purchased early in this hobby is (still) the Philips Fidelio X2. It's a big, comfy headphone, physically and sonically. Not a lot of resolution but plenty of bassy, musical fun. And yet, despite that evidence of my own ears, people on that headphone's thread occasionally describe it as "bright," with a distinct peak in the upper mids. Say WHAT? But enough people seriously post about it that I have to believe they hear it. Barring massive QC issues with the X2s, WTF?

 

Here's the DF measurements on B/K HATS (solid) compared to AECM206 (dotted)



Here the B/K HATS RAW measurements:



I totally agree that anyone with their particular personal/subjective HRTF could hear a peak at any which treble frequency. But for any sense of finality on statements it might be best to refer to graphs. I will post these on our website soon with an accompanying video on measurements etc.

I've never thought of our headphones as bright or peaky, but that doesn't mean someone with their subjective HRTF won't hear a peak or brightness. I typically make sure the highest peak never goes above the graphs at 1Khz when tuning.

PS - These are VO measurements.

 

From all my years with Verite, I don't think them bright, either.

When I hear headphones like legacy grados (with stock donuts), most of HFM, SR1a (with adapter with typical SS power amps), or HD800/S, I immediately feel "Oh, they're too bright for me..". Verite doesn't behave like that. Or at least, verite isn't bright that way. They don't measure bright either, as Zach's or others' (or even my) objective investigations suggest..

Nonetheless, I did find Verite "sounded" bright from time to time. Below are from my experience.

• This brightness is very track dependent. And it's probably more obvious with some types of old recordings.
• I may name a few. The first tracks of Abbey road (1983 recording) or Ella and Louis (2007 recording; CD only) were a little too hot or too much biting to my liking.
• With modern crap recordings (which I believe more treble-aggressive in general), I had much less issues with Verite. And interestingly the tracks I had hard time with VO didn't create much trouble to me with tonally bright transducers except for Raal/Focal.
• I'm thinking the following two components might play some roles.
  • I generally found good transients might make headphones sound brighter than they actually were. When Vereite was first known to SBAF, there was a discussion about this. I also concluded similarly in the loaner tour.
  • On the other hand, while overall treble energy level is low, there are a few specific regions that are more nuanced than the neighboring frequencies (both objectively and subjectively). When an instrument's lower order harmonics touch such peaks, higher order stuffs may not be heard sufficiently, which often lead certain notes of specific instruments/vocals to sound bright/aggressive/incisive a little too much.

Back to the original question, I'd say spending this much money should NOT rely on someone else's impression/thoughts unless you fully understand preferential, sonical, and musical context (a la SBAF 101). Verite can do several things irreplaceably well when every puzzle element is pieced together, but pros/cons should be aligned with what you're looking after and can tolerate. Highly worth auditioning at least once.

 

To be clear the VO to my ears are dark sounding headphones regardless of the pads I used: verite L pads, universe S and universe L (from brightest to darkest).
They're 2dB dark with my preferred verite L pads, that's why I used the phrase "It cuts through" when I described the 8khz peak I perceive. I never said or meant calling them bright.

They're just peaky, and I am not the first or last one to call them that.

 

You're absolutely right, others have called them peaky.

I'd rather have someone not purchase the verite if the sound description doesn't align with their personal tastes than buy it based on information that shows false enthusiasm in any particular area. It's not fun working with a new owner because one of our headphones doesn't meet what they read on the internet.

I definitely have a bias for numerous reasons, and one of them is that I answer dozens of emails a week via customer service for ZMF, and 8 out of 10 times with new verite owners who do email in about brightness or darkness, peakiness or smoothness, it's how to align their chain, pads and preferences, to make the verite sound a little brighter, a little edgier, and how to take away some of the damping factor from their system to open them up a little.

This isn't an argument about what you particularly perceive or hear (it's like feelings, they're always valid) , it's just trying to define things on a public forum, to align with what I know the general consensus on how a typical owner perceives the verite (remember I do customer service all day long every day for these). As many people reading this forum will not have heard the verite before, so I do my best to try help potential owners know what they're in for since we are in a world environment where many people may not be able to hear our headphones before buying them.

 

If you get a chance to try the be2 pads, do it. I felt fairly similar to you: universe L was a little too rolled off up top but verite L was fatiguing after a little while. I'm unsure whether it was the 8k peak you're talking about being tamer or something else that made me like them so much though. Also I find be2 to be closer to verite than to universe.

 

In keeping with this recent sub-topic (is the Verite bright, or just peaky?), an observation. I've tried the VO with at least 9-10 amps in my system, 7 of which remain. It was nothing even close to bright (or even noticeably peaky for me) on any of them. These are mostly SS, from V281 on down; 1-2 hybrids (since sold); and one modest OTL (Woo WA3).

Late last year I got the Monoprice Liquid Gold X (their re-license of the Cavalli Liquid Gold). It looks exactly like a Liquid Platinum sans driver tubes (uses the same case). Finally, with this amp, I have a source on which the VO sounds bright (to me, at least).

I couldn't tell you why it sounds bright on this one amp (which BTW simply kills on planars)...but it does. It's as if the abundant speed and resolution of the VO is suddenly spotlighted from the mids upward. Everything sounds sharper, borderline edgy.

But the good news is--in my experience, the VO really doesn't want to sound bright, or even peaky. I really had to work to find an amp on which it does...

 

May be low OI of Gold X and hence High DF is killing decay and euphonic character of Verite and making it sound like something with hard upper mid

 

Decent guess. Checked the V281's output impedance (balanced) = < 0.2 Ohm (balanced); vs LGX output impedance (balanced) = 0.13 ohms (balanced).

Is that enough OI difference to matter?

BTW, I chose the V281 because it routinely sounds wonderful on the VO; I listen to it & the LGX primarily via balanced out.

 

Bit happy to see this thread get a bit of a bump as the Aeolus and Verite have been in heavy rotation this month.

I received my sapele Verite Open about three weeks ago. I have had the Aeolus for three years where it served as my main headphone with an HD650 as an occaisional backup.

My pads of preference would change on the Aeolus as my source changed. I went from perf suede to univ to stock aeolus pads to univ perf lambskin pads over the years. I was pretty stoked at how versatile the Aeolus was because of the pads and I was always able to dial it in s I upgraded my chain. It's one of my favourite headphones and has survived a few upgrade attempts.

There were a few minor things that was causing me to look at other headphones - slightly small stage and very minor comfort problems with the driver baffle sitting on top of the cup, causing it to press against my ear. These are things I can easily live with, but curiousity got the best of me and I ordered a Verite Open.

I've got the Verite Open and with a pretty bad false start with the stock pads, I've landed on the BE2 suede pads. I think with these pads it's achieved what I was going for, wide sound stage that doesn't sound unatural like the HD800 and heeps more ear room due to the driver being set inside the cup. Additionally, I'm still wrapping my head around what is a much faster driver and the extra details in the bass. While the mids are not as full as the Aeolus, on these pads the mids are still what I'd consider forward and full and a bit more clear, they sort of stand on their own and I can hear lyrics easier with them.

I think at this moment the Verite Open is the best headphone I've tried out of all the lot.

@zach915m I got them from a local store here in AUS and send you a photo of some marks I see on the driver when changing pads, I know you're crazy busy (godspeed you for wanting to do customer service) but awaiting your reply when you get a chance!

 

simple answer: no

 

I have a set of verte open which I borrowed to hear and compare to the utopia. I love the verte except its bass, theres a lot of it but its rounded and not defined with attack, starting and stopping. The utopia is much better (with less of it) clearer, easier to hear attack and tone. No one seems to mention this, is it the synergy with my EC studio B and Gungnir MB? I would love to buy a ZMF if the bass was better.

 

In terms of dynamic headphone bass quality; you’d be hard pressed to find better coming from the Utopia. You could experiment with ear pads but it’s just that the bass quality is a tier above what the Verite Open can do.

 

I ended up selling my Verite Open and sticking with the Aeolus. I just like the weight of everything the Aeolus presents and nearly perfect mids Aeolus has, ultimately I value that over what I heard in the Verite Open.

 

What wood is the Verite made of? Me and a buddy speculated that the bass gets "tighter" with harder wood since Zach made the bass resonate with the (wood-)baffle intentionally - you either like that big(not fat), enveloping, droning bass or you don't.
I love the Utopia and the Verite and you assesment of the two is correct to my ears.
They are still the best, most fun and engaging headphones I have heard on my Studio Junior 2A3.
Would like to own them both again.

 

I have a silkwood (stock) Verite Open and love everything about its sound, including the bass. Is the hardest-hitting bass I've ever heard? Not really. Does it go lower in the sub-bass with more authority than any other headphone? Not really. My ZMF Ori has the best bass I've ever heard IMS; the big Abyss has the best bass I've ever heard, period.

But the VO's bass, like the entire frequency range, sounds so much like real music. This headphone captures the full tone & timbre of different bass instruments as well as any other headphone I have (or had) on hand. The sound of this headphone is just lovely, top to bottom.

FWIW, when I bought the VO I wanted silkwood, then the stock wood--not one of the harder LTD woods. My reasoning was that for a headphone with this much speed, detail and resolution, I would trade the usual dynamic "zing" of harder woods for a bit of romance and resonance. I never compared this VO to one w/harder wood, so can't be sure if my theory was correct. But I can tell you that I love the sound of this VO without reservation.

Conversely, when I bought the Aeolus, I did specify the hardest possible wood (blackwood), on the assumption that it would help this resonant, romantic, mid-bassy headphone to have a bit more punch & authority. Once again, I can't test the hypothesis, but love that Aeolus' sound.

PS: Most of my listening is on solid state amps, the best of which is the Violectric V281.