DAP discussion thread

Got the Qp1r but still waiting on the 800 S from a local dealer. He says that he should be getting shipping info this week and that I'll have them early next week.

 

Sweet!

 

No too many commenting on the QP1 for comparison the QP1R.

 

Ok, not trying to be a dork - serious question: Why do people still use DAPs instead of their phones? Is it the promise of better quality DAC/amp in the dedicated DAP? If so, how would a DAC/amp stick as a USB OTG device paired with the phone compare to the dedicated DAP, around the ideas of sound quality and pricing?

 

Some DAPs have serious power and refinement, rivaling some desktop systems. The Qp1r sounds better than many lower tier desktop amps that I've owned. Some phones can sound pretty decent (I have an HTC m8 which is one of the better sounding phones I've heard). But most phones will fall behind even an entry level DAP in terms of function and sonics. IMO

 

Ahh, power was something I wasn't considering. This would facilitate high Z or low sensitivity headphones. Seems kind of obvious now.

 

So anyone have suggestion to which dap/dac+amp combo that comes closest to the sound quality of the Yggdrasil dac.

 

Yeah anything near that quality or even Gungnir Multibit level?

 

Has anyone else backed the Seiun players on Indiegogo? I'll be getting a Pro X w/ 128 GB in a couple of months. It uses the Sabre's integrated amplification instead of a dedication opamp chip and output power isn't stellar, but it seemed worth a try at IGG's prices. Plus it might replace my 7" tablet as a portable video/Kodi player.

 

Wow good find. I may bite at this. Specs look good.

 

Indienono

 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/astellkern-ak320-ak380-copper-portable-hires-players/#/6

Lmao, Astell n kern insanity continues.... $4000 Ak380 copper edition?

 

Just found this thread but thought I would add some very opinionated data points for the TOTL DAPs. I have been deep into DAPs for several years now having demoed most existing well known DAPs with the notable exceptions of the P1, 901 Balanced (non-functional at RMAF booth), and Calyx M. I am excluding my mid-tier DAPs such as my X5 and DX90/50 which I have sold or X5ii and N6 which I have demoed. The mid-tier DAPs - while a good value play - don't hold a candle to the TOTL DAP SQ IMO. The entry point for the TOTL DAP IMO is my AK100ii which I am having trouble surpassing in UI and SQ - stacked with my C&C BH2 amp. Only the Paw was able to have TOTL SQ stand alone without an amp stack. Here is what I have found.

Based on demos, I would say:

• SQ: Paw Gold >> 380 > 240 = X7 = AK120ii/100ii >= QP1R > Pioneer (The QP1R is better for full sized can with specific signature that you like or not)
• UI/Usability: 380 = 240 = AK120ii/100ii > X7 = Pioneer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paw Gold >= QP1R
• Stand Alone Capable DAP: Paw Gold, ................maybe QP1R for full sized HPs if you like the signature.

Obviously this is my opinion only, YMMV.

Of note is that the AK240, AK120ii, and AK100ii use the same DAC and amp with the 240/120 doing dual DAC/AMP implementations while the 100ii uses a single. Doing side by side comparisons, and volume matching due to the 240/120 greater output, I couldn't tell the difference between them in SQ. Neither could the AK employees working the booth. The only value of the AK240/120ii is that they will drive full sized HPs better. However, bypassing the internal amps of each with my $100 C&C BH2 amp resulted in noticeably better SQ negating the value and my AK100ii matched their performance. Hence, I ended up with an AK100ii. The AK UI is superb keeping me from changing DAPs. However, the X7 is close and cheaper for a better value if I had to do it again. The PAW is my favorite for sound, but the UI needs more of a look to get my dollars so I am in a tour to check it out further.

 

Heard the Pono and AK320 today.

AK320 sounds like crap (for the money in particular). I'm speculating some impedance around 4 cuz UERM got some really screwed up sound. Soft, smeared, and slow.

Pono is decent. Not great, but may fall into the sub-M or M according the the golden schlong standard. Not overpriced though IMO. The high (~3) impedance found by Tyll is also confirmed - the lowest end got muddy,and overall the sound leans heavily to the soft and polite side. Yet it still manages to sound better than AK320 to me. The Pono has got tons of power to burn, so I guess the performance will go up with full-sized cans.

 

HI Barra,

What makes the QP1r deficient in SQ for you? How long have you had it? Thanks.

 

This weak opinion was based on a 30 minute demo at RMAF using my CIEMs and the provided ethers and LCDs - so YMMV. I actually really like the QP1r - looks great and sounds great. It has the feel of a premium product. However, I feel it was built with full sized headphones in mind where they shine. But for a portable, I am looking for my CIEMs to shine - so it is a use case thing. Also the signature would require a little more audition to see if I could listen long term as I am sensitive to its treble boost paired with the Hiditions. This gives it an aggressive stance with my NT6pro. In the end, I like my AK stack or the PAW SQ significantly more to care too much. It just didn't stand out to me during back to back DAP demos at RMAF where the AK380 and PAW did.

What loses the sale for me is the UI. The text is too small for me to read and the physical buttons are disabled with the screen off which is a shame and a no go for me. With the exception of the PAW that adds top SQ nothing else can match, I would have trouble stepping backward to another basic UI after being spoiled by AK.

 

Thanks. So, is it a tuning issue more than technical capability? Would you say the paw gold had far superior detail resolution?

 

I don't think anyone would go wrong with any of the TOTL DAPs. At that level it really comes down to sonic/UI preferences where in a perfect world everyone needs to audition for themselves before choosing. However, it is starting to feel pretty universal, that those that have or heard them all, prefer their PAW as having the best SQ.

As for detail resolution, that is a can of worms (or opinions) as the DAPs and HPs all resolve detail in different ways. For me it comes down to how enjoyable it is where the PAW is resolving, musical, and dynamic putting it all together into an involving, toe tapping format. I tend to stay away from sources/HPs that expose extra detail through brightness.

Another way to look at it - a radio telescope can get a ton more detail/information quicker than a time exposure image from the Hubble optical telescope, but a digital radar map printout of the Horse Nebula or the Andromeda Galaxy would never be as hair raising, spooky, and awe inspiring as a full color high resolution Hubble optical image. The PAW is the Hubble.

 

tl;dr - PAW is a telescope.

 

Anax mentioned a while back that he felt that the QP1 was better for IEM/CIEM (This was prerelease). I have the QP1 at the moment and it sounds great. I can't compare it to the R because I haven't heard it myself but I am running into the problem that the volume jumps back and forth when I turn the volume up or down. It's not a deal breaker but the wheel is some what erratic (this is a deal breaker). When I try to spin the wheel slowly it will skip over the option I'd like pretty often. I emailed moon audio (where I bought the QP1 from) if they could check to see if this was common with the QP1's. I also asked if they could check If the QP1R was encountering the same issues and if they didn't have this problem I am willing to upgrade.

This is my findings so far. The QP1 is great with my Noble 4C. I fell asleep to the music as a decent volume and I haven't done that in years with headphones on. The sound pulls me in and keeps me engaged. I don't need to listen to the nuances but I can hear them. This player is effortless with its sound.

I have asked white a few times on HF to see if anyone has heard the QP1 and R and they never give a detailed comparison. They just reply that one has better power and components. That doesn't tell me much...