General Headphone Advice

And you know fair enough I can't say that I've ever heard the type of the line planars or a top of the line system in general. I ran my 560's off an Asgard 2 and I'm running the HD 800 off of a Valhalla 2.

All I can comment on is what I've heard and out of 'fairly decent' equipment HE-560's do not produce a soundstage like I've heard HD 598's do out of a standard computer jack.

Anyway it's not to say I fully hated them. I thought they had fun bass that extended way lower then any dynamic I've ever heard up until my HD 800s. Just not to my taste. I had Alpha Dogs though and I liked them fine so who knows. I actually thought the Alpha Dogs did a better job in the imaging department then the 560's did for that matter. They had other issues unrelated however.

 

Oh hi, one of my "fans" from Reddit.

 

Rising response into the bass aside, and some measurement artifacts in the low treble, they look very close. Particularly in the 200Hz to 2000Hz range. Carefully compare the HE-560 to nearly any other headphone measured at IF and you'll see the 4kHz peak is quite elevated. A real problem, and a probably an intractable one if it didn't respond to pad change and EQ; fortunately the peak isn't due to ringing.

 

It might be cool to have one not-so-well-moderated "chat-thread" about headphones and pretty much everything else - where you could just talk about daily stuff, ask for advice etc, in an informal way.

What do you think?

 

I have owned the HE-500 and have auditioned a couple of the Audeze phones at my local hifi store, Executive Stereo in Toronto.

With some exceptions, I find the majority of them to be heavy and uncomfortable to wear for any reasonable length of time.

While they are impressive, I think the performance differences are outrageously over-exaggerated online.

I currently own Senn HD650s and recently purchased the Beyers T1.2s.

Both headphones are excellent and compare favorably to the expensive planar offerings. I find there are more similarities than there are differences. In my opinion, when considering weight and comfort, both the HD650 & T1.2s are absolute winners.

FWIW, I think once you reach the level of diminishing returns (~$400-$500) There is no such thing as "better" headphones. There are simply differences in Flavor, Presentation and Soundstage.

 

Hah, WEEEEEEEAAAAK

 

Well... I might have to disagree there.

 

Sorry, going to have to disagree with this. My credentials include the HE-6, TH-900, HD600, K553, and several in the sub-$100 range. I own lo-, mid-, and hi-fi headphones. While it is true that the WOW-factor you experience going from lo-fi to mid-fi isn't as pronounced as when going from mid-fi to hi-fi, the improvement is still very pronounced. Setting aside how boring I found the HD600, from a technical perspective, it's a very solid mid-fi product. My TH-900 isn't a little better than the HD600, but greatly so; weather or not it's three times as good to match the price difference is a purely subjective judgement, and to me, I would say it's at least that much better.

To me, hearing a piano that sounds like hammers hitting strings instead of a synthesizer is worth that much. This difference is far beyond what I think you could achieve with EQ.

 

Maybe in terms of your personal enjoyment but some of the planars are considerably better on technicalities.

No. I do not agree with this at all.

 

Wow! My first like!

 

Personally, I feel that there are two peaks in the curve for diminishing returns. The first is around the $500 range where you can find yourself 75% there (think modded HD650, Valhalla 2, Bifrost MB). Everything from then on offers meh returns until you reach the next peak around the $1500-$2000 range, which will get you around 95% there (think modded HD800, ZDS, Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil).

Of course my ranges are just ballparking, but my point is that there's a more of a bimodal distribution for audio gains per dollar spent (instead of one single peak). In the end, it's whether or not you feel that it's worth it; some of us are more willing to spend an extra thousand for that final couple percentages.

 

I disagree. If I'm a dude with a pair of beats vs a dude with AKG 7xx the jump the guy with the Beats makes to the 7xx is going to be a way higher fidelity switch then the 7xx guy jumping to HD 800s.

Not only are there diminishing returns after 500 dollars I'd argue that you start to hit major diminishing returns after 200 and it only goes from there. Let's not forget I can get 598's for 150, X2's for 200, HD 600s for 300 if not less on sale and on and on.

I love my HD 800s but there's no getting around that fact. The dude paying 2000 dollars (for his system) versus the guy paying 400 is doing it for the last couple percentage points

 

Very strong opinions from someone who hasn't really owned that much.... for someone who is preaching open minded approach on the power cable thread you certainly aren't taking that approach here.

Too bad most find power cables to be hogwash and trying and measuring headphones to be gospel.

 

I had no idea my post would have invoked this much feedback.

Obviously some passionate individuals who feel differently. And I'm glad for the comments and others voicing their thoughts.

I was just voicing a personal opinion. I do not claim my statements as facts.

That being said, I must clarify that I am not an audiophile by any stretch. Primarily, I listen to modern music (ie. pop, r&b, hip hop, motown, funk, edm, etc.)

My motivation behind my previous post, simply to voice my opinion, that to my ears, which I do not claim to be golden, I do not hear these drastic night and day differences that many describe.

I am not sure why the HD600/650 get classified as mid-fi other than price however I consider them to be in the high-end discussion.

Within the high-end, I find the differences to be mild. Differences in soundstage technicalities are more apparent.

Anyways, this thread has gotten off topic, which is my fault.


To Walderstorn (OP),

It appears to me you are looking for a headphone that blends a dynamic and fun sound signature with all the technicalities of the best of the best.

Within your posted budget and based on the material you listen to, which seems similar to what I enjoy, I would steer you away from the HE-560 as I found them slightly too thin throughout the lower and mid octaves.

4 Headphones to consider: Audioquest Nighthawk, Beyerdynamic T1.2, Fostex TH-X00/TH-600/TH-900 or Philips Fidelio X2

I have auditioned the Nighthawks at Bay Bloor Radio in Toronto, they sound quite similar to the HD650 with some more fun factor. Slightly more punch or authority in the deeper octaves. Less intimate, rather more open soundstage in comparison.

I have not heard any of the Fostex models listed, however I did own the Denon D2000, D5000 & Lawton Audio LA2000. I loved the headphones back in their days. The downside of the headphones, the pads made my ears warm/hot and uncomfortable and more importantly I found the midrange lacking body and heft, which is why I sold them. With that noted, while everything I've read indicates that the newer Fostex models all share a similar v-shaped presentation.... the midband supposedly has more substance than the previous Denon models. Those Denon's were very fun headphones.

I have also not heard the Philips Fidelio X2. But like many others, I have read lots of reviews stating that they have a good blend of dynamics, bass weight, technical prowess while being an open design. Edit: I just re-read your original post and you wrote that you didn't care for X1, so this may not have been a good suggestion.

Finally, the Beyerdynamic T1.2 (check Amazon, frequently on sale), these in my opinion have the best overall balance and blend of flat/neutral presentation, with a natural tonality, wide frequency extension, superior soundstage depth and width along with enough bass impact to please. All that being said, they still were not the most fun cans in the world. My old Denons had more fun factor.

Myself, I really want to audition the Fostex models.

I hope you found some useful info somewhere in there.

 

You're saying that there's diminishing returns, and in fact GUTB isn't denying that. What he is talking about is that there are better headphones as you go up the price scale--this is irrespective of how small the improvement is.
(He also did argue that TH-900 is vastly better than HD 650, and we might agree or disagree on this, but if it's only about the degree of difference--e.g. if we think TH-900 is just a little better than HD 650--we haven't denied that there is an improvement.)

 

I like to put on my phones, crank the tunes up, & enjoy the debates from the sideline.

 

haha

Ray, stepping off the sidelines.. what headphones are you rocking? & any recommendations for the OP?

 

This jives with my experience. Sure, I've heard headphones I like better than my HE-500s, but it would take some serious money to get there. The HE-6 has come down in price on the used market, but when you start looking at the components you need to drive them properly?

My HE-500/Bifrost4490/Ember II setup suits me just fine since I'm not willing to jump that bimodal valley to get to the next peak.

 

I guess the point that I really disagreed with is that there is a larger difference between the low to mid jump compared to the mid to hifi jump.

It's not a point worth getting up in arms over. I'm just pointing out that my experience trends the other way. I'd argue my old 598 is 85% of an HD 800. The 1300 difference in price gets you closer to varying degrees but it's certainly not a linear jump up through the price ranges and even the largest jump is basically splitting hairs.

This is not exclusive to audio though. Look at PC parts or Blu Ray players or TV sets. This is consistent in consumer electronics in general. I mean how much better is a Titan X then a 980 Ti or a 970 for that matter? (Graphics cards) What if I add a 800 dollar water cooling loop on top of my 1500 dollar Titan X. Does the extra 80 mhz I get on my overclock make even a perceivable difference in frame rate? Maybe suppose it depends on the person and application being run. But I'm on my way to building my third custom loop anyway. All while enjoying my HD 800 on an amplifier that literally adds distortion on purpose.

I don't know I think it's fun to take stock of these kind of things and figure out why you really do them. It's certainly not for any kind of value.