HD600

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by SpaceLaser, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. m.i.c.k.e.y

    m.i.c.k.e.y Facebook Friend

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  2. Zed Bopp

    Zed Bopp Friend

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    Schiit Lyr 2 isn't a full-on tube-amp, it's a hybrid: tube-powered pre-amp + SS power-stage. I like it that way just fine with my HD600 and LCD-2, though!
     
  3. k1arg

    k1arg Facebook Friend

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    I have been comparing my HD 600 with LCD-3 (late non-fazor) and am trying to explain what I am hearing or to identify the common terminology in order to relate to other impressions, etc.

    Some things are clear, such as the bass extension being a bit further on the LCD-3, and the spatial imaging being much better on the HD 600. But some things stump me.

    One is that after level-matching them using pink noise and a Gold Precision meter (stuck in the hole of a blank CD held over the headphone cup, C weighting, within 1dB but not 0.1 or anything), the HD 600 sound subjectively louder to me. That doesn't make much sense to me, is there an explanation?

    My main question is perhaps about distortion or resolution. The best description I have for what I'm hearing is that with the HD 600, temporally adjacent notes run together more, and separating e.g. bass and rhythm electric guitars is more difficult. A concrete example is Metallica's Fight Fire with Fire, starting at about 1:10. To my ears, the individual guitar chords are less distinct and "all run together" to a degree. Also, especially a bit later in the track during the choruses, the bass guitar is much harder for me to pick out from the rest with the HD 600.

    Are these sorts of differences consequences of frequency response, or distortion, ringing, or? It doesn't seem to be explained by FR to me, and if anything the HD 600 ought to do better wrt ringing if I have understood the measurements and associated discussion. Distortion seems possible as an explanation, as the LCD does measure well there. But I'm just shooting from the hip here.

    And do these observations jive with others'? I'm guessing not, as the consensus seems to be that the HD 600 is more resolving than the LCD-3. I bought my HD 600 in 2002/2003 (I don't remember exactly, but it was when the price dropped just after the HD 650 was announced), but I don't know if current production models are significantly different. Mine could use new pads, but otherwise should I expect what I hear from them to be consistent with other impressions here?

    (FWIW, this is with Gungnir MB and Mjolnir 1)
     
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  4. SSL

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    Headphones cannot be level-matched in this way, if at all. C-weighting doesn't even come close to approximating the response of either headphone; the FR differences are intractable from a level-matching perspective. I believe that the HD 600 is more forward in the upper midrange compared to the LCD-3, therefore it sounds subjectively louder, even when "level-matched".
     
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  5. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Did you ever mod your HD600 with Dynamat or similar?

    I've been comparing a stock HD600 to my modded HD650s for a week, and there are definitely things I prefer about both. Most of what I like about the modded HD650 is its tighter and meatier bass. I still think that the HD600 has more natural treble (notice this especially with cymbals and similar percussion). HD650s are also a bit more fatiguing after the mods which has me somewhat concerned. I think using the dampener on the stock HD600 in the same spots (except the magnet) may offer similar benefits in bass distortion and close the gap.

    As an aside, I definitely think the HD650's headband pad is more comfortable than the HD600's headband pad.
     
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  6. Jun

    Jun Friend

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    Mod your HD 600 and find out, I never modded mines and I ended up selling the stock 600. Modded 6X0 > Stock 6X0.

    IMO, HD 600 has a better frequency response. Even a modded HD650 couldn't beat it on frequency response. Other technicalities I can't speak much about since it isn't fair to compare mod vs unmodded.
     
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  7. mrweirdude

    mrweirdude Asshole lowballer - acquaintance

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    Which of the mods in the big HD650 love thread apply well to the HD600?
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I would not do the quarter or damping foam removal mod on the HD600. It doesn't need it and doing so may make it sound worse.

    The Dynamat mods might be interesting on the HD600.
     
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  9. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    Dynamat had positive results in my HD600s. There's a bunch of newer modding ideas in a different vein in the works too.
     
  10. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    One thing I found interesting about the HD600 is that it responded fairly well to additional front and back damping. The HD650 did not, particularly with back damping. Got this really strained sound to it with an always-present, high-pitched glare to it. Anyway, goes to show that despite their similarities, the same mods might not apply for both.
     
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  11. Decomo

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    I just ablout to purchase HD600 and not sure which amp/dac to go with.. I also ordered Grace Design M9xx before ordering HD600 and not sure if it would be a good match.. If not, i might have to sell it off and purchase different dac/amp combo.. I am not sure about Tube amp.. I personally do not like tube sticking out of unit hence, prefer solid state Amp and Dac combo. Can anyone help me on this?? Thank you very much...
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
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  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    You could look for a Vali 1.
     
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  13. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    what the hell is wrong with you Randos-
    you don't like the way a tube looks sticking out of an amp, and thus SS is preferred? by gawd.
    are you phallically challenged?
    where is the tube supposed to go- upside down or sideways into the case?

    how about you explain your budget and sound signature preferred and we might be able to assist.

    until then, go grab a used CEntrance HiFiM8 combo unit.
    :drunk:
     
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  14. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    if both were about same price, which route one go? i been wanting a hd600 for ages and only briefly ever heard the 650's on my phone and liked it. never heard a hd600 ever is reason i ask. cause some say the 600 is smoother than the hd650 where supposedly the 650 is smoother. kinda confusing. unmodded which route i wonder... might be getting one soon and place i like ordering stuff from has new stock hd600's besides 650's.
     
  15. Decomo

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    The reason I do not want tube amps is mainly because safety - I have 3 little kids in house and tubes will get easily smashed when they playing around during day time so may not safe for kids if it happens. Hence, I prefer SS amp if there is SS Amp that can sound as good as Tube amp for HD600.

    My budget is about $600 for Dac/Amp combo. I am total newbie so not interested in spending over $1K to start with.

    I will check out Centrance HiFiM8 for sure. I quickly browsed it and it has 4XL connection. Does this mean 4XL connection is better option for HD600?
     
  16. Decomo

    Decomo Facebook Friend

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    I forgot to mention my preferred sound sig. My favorite sound is ER4S - high clarity and clean sound. If I can get ER4S sound with just a bit more bass, then it would be my most desired sound..
     
  17. Decomo

    Decomo Facebook Friend

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    I got below list of Dac/Amp combo that I am considering and not sure which ones might go well with HD600.

    * Grace Design M9xx (which I currently ordered and might need to sell it off to get any one of below ones if it is not good for HD600)
    * Schiit Modi2/Magni2 Uber
    * Centrance HiFi-M8
    * LH Labs Geek Pulse (Standard)
    * Ifi Micro iDSD
    * Audio-GD NFB-10SE
    * Red Wine Audio Isabellina

    The last one is above my current budget but curious how it stack up with other mid-fi gears listed above...
    I will mainly use with my macbook pro so portability is good to have but not a must.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
     
  18. Decomo

    Decomo Facebook Friend

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    Looks great. I will paint in shiny black as soon as I get my own. :)
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    aesthetically, I don't like tubes sticking out the top either. Nor do I like room heaters as hifi*. Nor do I like the fragility of those bits of glass.

    As a child, I used to spend weeks not listening to music, while dad searched for a replacement valve for the radiogram. radio, tv, radiogram, everything had tubes in those days when I was yet to have my first transistor radio.

    Later in life, I had all the wrong biases to get into tubes again. You may say, all that has nothing at all to do with sound, but it is still where I am coming from, and my experience of listening to my own and others' systems is that if a set-up is damned good, it is damned good, and it doesn't matter if it is tube or ss. The more it does matter, the more there is likely to be something wrong with it!

    Just to make the point that there is life without tubes, people can freely make the choice, based on sound, biases, or even safety. There is even serious hifi life without tubes. How many tubes are to found in the amplifiers of the world's best studio-monitor active-speaker amplifiers?

    If there is only one true path, that path is... choice!



    *OK, not only tubes. I have a matchbox-size Geek Out that does its best to be a room heater. How anybody would ever carry that in their pocket, I have no idea!
    .
     
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  20. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    I understand kids, a valid reason for avoiding tubes now.
    will a SS amp sounds as good as a tube amp? always depends on which of each, but probably not unless the tube amp is junk.

    no the XLR on M8 is not better- just there for convenience.
     

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