HifiMAN HE6SE measurements and short review

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by Vtory, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. bilboda

    bilboda Florida boomer

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    Jotunheim 2 or Adcom GFA 535?
    The jot2 has been on for 8 days and this has helped with a slightly smoother presentation.
    The Adcom has been on over a month.

    Listening to Vanessa Fernandez, I Want You, as I write this and finding the Jot to be more truthful, I think.
    Guitar distortion and vocal imperfections seem more lifelike vs the Adcom, outresolving it and providing more clarity.
    I am happy with both amps with this headphone.
    You'd have to give the nod to the jot2 for headphones, the HD800s sounds excellent, still comparing vs ZDS and SW51+ along with Verite, HD650, Grado RS2e, Verum and Elegia, jot 2 is just more versatile.
    The Adcom stays as a backup for phones and speakers.
    Loxjie P20 and Neurochrome HP1 seem redundant now along with the Crack but I do have to give more time to the HP1. It won't do for the he6se but performs well with other phones.
     
  2. Sebbai

    Sebbai New

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    Anyone still use their HE6SE? Recently received my pair, and I was underwhelmed by the bass compared to my previous OG HE6. Noticed The bass was kicking harder whenever I removed the headphones from my head while music was playing. So I tried to find a picture I’ve stumbled upon when waiting for the HE6SE, it was a open pad mod. Since I couldn’t find it, and didn’t want to cut the stock pads, I found some electrical wires and stripped the insulation. Stuck them underneath the plastic pad retaining ring, made sure they where long enough to raise the whole plastic ring and short enough to not cover the driver.

    Now the bass is kicking like the OG (connected to 80w speaker amp) but these are also much smoother to listen to overall. And they are easier to drive, best cans I’ve listened to on my A90.

    At first I tried to seal my Audeze Suede to the driver, since others have recommended that for better bass, but I didn’t notice any difference. I’m still new in this hobby and it might be my perception of what bass is supposed to be in the audiophile eyes. Would really like for someone else to try the mod and post what they think. Also hoping someone could try to measure the change in the frequency graph.

    Pictures:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. tranq

    tranq Friend

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    I see the HE6se are on sale again for 699.

    I need (want) a pair of planars for my HP collection, considering these.

    Anyone have experience as to how these would pair with Ragnarok 2 and Bifrost 2 or Gungnir Multibit 2.

    I re read this thread today, the FR looks like its up my alley compared to the average Audeze and DCA FR.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
  4. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Where did you get those cup vents? They are really nice.
     
  5. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    [​IMG]

    I plan to padroll but Ive just been enjoying as-is for now. They are are a bit treble happy but it's exciting in combination with the solid bass [Jot2, low-gain]. Headband hotspot required support.

    I said this in 2022 awards thread:
    HE6se v2 for value sorta. Keeps dropping in regular sale price, currently $400shipped at Adorama. Ya, it requires a big amp so that has to be factored into cost. I feel a giant amp is part of the experience that makes HE6se special... Go right ahead, connect to a speaker amp! Sonically, HE6se v2 is basically HE500+. Somebody posted this in the HF thread, but $400 today is great value compared to the classic Hifimans from over a decade ago when inflation is considered. And considering the high prices dusty old OG HFM sell for, 6se new with warranty is a convenient bargain.

    -Freq response, stock, EARS:
    HE6se (EARS) avg.jpg

    -Pad face is velour and round-ish which sometimes means imperfect seal as seen in measurement bass roll off inconsistencies.:
    HE6se (EARS).jpg

    -L/R balance. Pads dont look super symmetrical:
    HE6se balance.jpg

    -Gotdam! Grado-esque. I felt HE6se had some graininess but figured it was the extra treble spot lighting bad recordings but maybe it's this.:
    HE6se CSD.jpg

    -Compare to HE500 (4-screw):
    HE500 CSD (FPC), velour pads.jpg
    ^note: I am using HE500 with leather pads now and will do new measures later.

    edit: add pic
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2022
  6. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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  7. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Apples to apples comparison. T60RP pads on HE500 and HE6se. Frequency response measurements, EARS.
    HE500 t60rp VS HE6se t60rp.jpg
    CSD and a/b impressions eventually.
    ----
    [​IMG]
    Edit: removed teasing because too far. Was just joking but can see how might be received negatively. sorry
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2022
  8. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    HE6se stock pads vs HE6se with T60RP pads. Doesn't exactly look an improvement, but I want to compare HE500 vs HE6se with same pads so this will do unless HE6se sounds much worse with the new pads.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    edit: NEED TO REDO, I MISLABELED FILE NAME so wrong measures. Ill take measures again in a few hours. It appears I saved over my file (mislabeled) so need to redo them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2023
  10. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    T60RP earpads. They are a bit small and oval so required some trimming of the mounting ring to fit.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    First impressions is not giving me any fits so far. Sounds more balanced than stock pads (less treble tilt). Sounds more like my HE500 w/ t60rp pads. So will move to a/b comparison after some extended listening sessions to test fatigue-free status.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2022
  11. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I didnt like the T60RP pads. A little too much upper mids, reminded me most of 6XX in that respect.

    I tried a few more pad measurements with EARS. These were done quickly with a few runs of each re-positioned then averaged after removing any obvious outliers from bad seal. The Brainwavz ovals are a bit small and a major pita to install the HFM pad rings so I think Id rather just double-sided tape them.

    Update later after listening. The ones that look to have the most promise: Brainwavz oval - microsuede, Accessory House lambskin for THX00 (though I didnt like them with HE500 due to mild bass bloom), and Dekoni velour for T50RP (thought I didnt like them with HE500 because I thought they were a little bright and bass limp relatively).

    Warning, there are sometimes revisions on pads so your Brainwavz oval - hybrids or Accessory House - lambskin for THX00 might not be the same as mine and so on.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    All the non-porous pads I tried except for very shallow ones had noticeable bass bloom (from pressurization). All the velour pads lost some sense of bass. Hybrid (like stock) or perforated I imagine will work best. Dekoni hybrids for HFM are the warmest but have some very slightly peaky highs and possibly diminished bass weight and impact like velour. There are a few more pads Id like to try before settling such as Focus-A or these semi-perforated pads.

    edit: Accessory House lambskin for THX00 are sounding like a contender but you have to trim down the pad rings a little to get them to install easily. Really good tone - just need more time listening to evaluate if these have noticeable bass bloom which leads to fatigue. Warning, the pad pics on Amazon are misleading. Theyve revised the pads a couple of times so they are not like as shown in photo any more. The version I am using with HE6se were purchased a few months ago originally to try with HE500.

    edit2: I've more pads on hand I could try. I only measured the ones I thought might work well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2022
  13. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    AH pads for THX00
    - good-great tone
    - retains bass weight of sealed pads (possibly within acceptable or beneficial limits of bass bloom and/or positives of pad chamber reverb). The hybrids I tested leaned too far towards velour bass sound (warm but soft).

    EARS:
    [​IMG]

    I hear a bit of diaphragm crinkle from using sealed / leather pads. Problem? It only occurs when putting on or removing headphones.

    edit:
    - Diaphragm crinkle seems to not be a problem fwir.
    - The AHl pads can be intoxicating because the solid material pads bring the bass impact and damp the driver to improve several technical qualities, but over several hours of listening to specifically bassy music my ears started to feel assaulted. Felt like it was from the mild pressurization / bass bloom. What I need is a perforated or hybrid pad with just the right amount of air pressure relief…
    - The earpad chamber dimensions play a role in how they filter the driver through blocking the driver’s peripheries where im guessing is more a source of higher frequencies due to the way it is clamped (more limited excursion at the edges) which by blocking/ filtering results in overall darker tone (but also reduced soundstage where HFM is already weak). Also im guessing the dimensions of the earpad chamber may alter nulls and nodes in frequency response. Im finding traditional HFM ead pad chamber result in more 2kHz dip. A null or coincidence?
    - Inserting venting between baffle and pad has been a mod for HE6 OG for like a decade. I could incorporate but Im trying to not do mods other than padrolling for benefit of friendly MOTs. Seems most all headphones have some front-side venting for air pressure relief either thru porous pads, venting system under pads, or vents in baffle that can then be exhausted back through the vented cups.
    - Expensive padrolling resumes. Ill be slow on earpad recommendations until Ive tested thoroughly. However, I may add measurements and brief subjectives as they come.
    - I hope my hypothesis arent complete doo doo. That’s why MOT r&d is appreciated and valued. Time, effort, expertise, and money. Thank you and Happy Holidays MOTs!
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
  14. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Settling on Dekoni hybrid (for HFM) so I can move on to trying the ubiquitous grill mod (removing grill) to see if I can detect a sound difference. Dh (for HFM) sounds most balanced overall of the pads I have currently. Dekoni hybrid (for T50RP / THX00) didnt noticeably improve bass but it did noticeably suffocate soundstage due to narrow ear holes. Stock HE6se pads are a little difficult to measure consistently because the roundedness of the fabric pad face doesnt seat well against the flat coupler so moving to Dekoni pads will improve measurement consistency for the open-grill trial.

    HE6se Dekoni hybrid for HFM VS HE6se.jpg
    * Dekoni hybrid (for HFM) is green trace.
    ** I finally updated REW so my graphs are going to look a little different. Ive also increased the image size dimensions for more clarity. Let me know if youd like less or more line trace smoothing.
    [​IMG]

    Edit: The warmer tone and incisiveness of AH (for THX00) pads is missed. Maybe If I avoid bassy marathons I can enjoy AH (for THX00) without possible mild pressurization fatigue. And Im starting to secretly think that HE6 is mildly fatiguing regardless. Stock pad fatigue I blamed on hot treble (like a Grado), Dekoni hybrid (for HFM) is less problematic but also less interesting / exciting. Pick your poison? Ill recalibrate with other headphones and speakers then compare pads again later.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
  15. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    - To measure grill (on) vs grill (off) I tried carefully to remove grill without disturbing the headphone positioning or clamp etc upon coupler. No changes to in/out, just re-measure.
    - I briefly tried comparing grill on vs off by holding the grills in my hand then repeatedly placing them over the cups/drivers while listening but I couldnt hear a difference...
    - Grain of salt, fwiw, etc.

    HE6se grill vs no grill (AH pads for THX00) FPC:
    HE6SE (ah pads for thx00) grill vs no grill.jpg

    Grill (on) CSD FPC:
    HE6SE (ah pads for thx00) grill (on) CSD.jpg

    Grill (off) CSD FPC:
    HE6SE (ah pads for thx00) grill (off) CSD.jpg

    HE6se (stock pads) VS HE6se (AH pads for THX00) FPC:
    HE6se stock pads VS ah pads for thx00.jpg

    HE6se stock pads CSD FPC (2), attempting to adjust limits to make depth more comparable. Aiming for -35db:
    HE6se stock pads CSD (2).jpg
    HE6se ah pads for thx00 CSD (2).jpg
    * stock pad measurements were taken prior to recent REW update
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2022
  16. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    HE6se Dekoni hybrid pads (for T50RP + THX00)
    - These Dekonis sound the most balanced so far. The lack of bass bloom (no masking) and even response I think allows for a little more perception of detail. The measured 10kHz mild peak doesn't sound mildly peaky to me however Im not usually sensitive to 10kHz peaks (i could confuse for detail) unless accompanied by massive resonance. I also prefer 2-3kHz dips so this may not jive for others.
    (EARS):
    HE6se Dekoni hybrid pads for T50RP + THX00.jpg
    ^ I took a fresh averaged response measurement because the first time I didnt install the pad rings - just used some double sided tape.

    edit: Nah, Dekoni hybrid for HFM is preferable. The extra slight warmth is worth sacrificing slightly more even treble. ymmv
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2022
  17. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    HE6se Defean focus pad knock-off
    - from memory these seem to have a little firmer foam than originals but possibly thicker and softer velour
    - despite the photo on Amazon the inner chamber pad material is perforated like focus pads
    EARS:
    HE6se Defean focus pad knock-off.jpg

    edit: I didnt bother trying these personally. Think Im good with Dekoni hybrid for HFM.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2022
  18. Ti_Leo

    Ti_Leo Almost "Made"

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    Don't know I sure post this 10-minute silly test, but I guess it could be useful for some?

    I put some cheap fake Beyer style velour earpads on my HE6SE, actually, the "bottom" of the pads, the sides which facing the drivers, are made of cheap faux-leather material, they are like genuine Beyer pads without holes. (Sorry, I spent 10 minutes searching but just couldn't find the right thing.)

    And I used some adhesive foam between the pads and drivers to make the "3D imaging" angle and I actually made some big air vents.

    Turned out, the HE6SE sounded really bass-heavy, more vocal-focused and there's even a bit sweetness in the sound. I liked it for 5 minute, but then found it to be too dull. It's like trying to solve the mids and treble issues by smothering the sound. I was surprised that those velour pads brought that much bass and killed a lot of treble, it's just counter-intuitive...

    Yep, I changed back to original pads, they don't sound as bassy, and the vocal sounds a bit "light", and the unevenness is back, ugh.

    OK, as I was having difficulty describing things above, I swapped back the fake Beyer pads again, better dark than uneven I guess? Oh that BASS... Maybe similar pads can be worth researching, these pads really solved my complaints about HE6SE: weak vocal and uneven treble, but they just overdid the thing...
     
  19. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    New Fantastia sheepskin semi-perforated pads
    - EARS measurements
    - Can't detect bass bloom... Well done inner perforations!? The inner foam is not too dense so the perforations actually breathe.
    - First impression is they sound a little less bright and bass a little more focused and impactful compared to Dekoni hybrid (for HFM) which would be ideal. Will need to carefully a/b to be make any more comparisons since they are more alike than not but those small differences would be significant for me.
    - Physical construction of pad mounting ring is unlike anything else Ive tried so far. The plastic ring is much thicker and kindve just snaps into place instead of being an annoying struggle. Nice! And they're cheaper than Dekoni or Hifiman.
    - These measurements were averaged but consistency is good anyway with slightly varied positioning.
    HE6se nfs.jpg
    HE6se nfs VS HE6se dh HFM.jpg

    edit: Tiny bit of bass bloom pressure fatigue after listening straight through several bass-heavy electronic albums. I might just be weak so ymmv. Why does bass bloom only become apparent after extended sessions with bassy music? Id guess the inner-perforations allow better dissipation but only to a point before becoming overwhelmed. Maybe poking a vent into the outer rim of the pads would help. Ill try living with the pads as-is before doing anything else.

    edit2: I tried some pad a/b comparing this morning between a few favored pads. The New Fantasia sheepskin (semi-perforated) pads nailed it best. Most impactful bass without obvious bass bloom (only becomes apparent with long listening sessions to bassy electronic music) while having relatively dim highs (my preference). If fatigue creeps up from pressurization (i presume) then Ill try adding an exterior vent to the pad.
    ---------

    Next mod will be trying @cameng318 's 3DP cups but first I will use HE500 as test bed. See his reasoning and measurements for 3DP cups in the other thread.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2023
  20. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I forgot to mention that I've being using a different cable from stock for a couple weeks now. This cable. Cable made with this material. I bought a new cable because I needed a balanced XLR for my T50RP - Open Alpha. The new cable is longer than stock HE6se short cable so sticking with this aftermarket set. Mentioning because I know its important to some people. fwiw I didnt notice an audible difference but I didnt attempt a/b or blind a/b. I am considering doing a blind a/b with help of wife but its tedious just thinking about it... Im working up the courage to try still because I told my friend I would since he is a cable believer and he did a blind a/b.
     

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