HIFIMAN Headphone Compendium

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Mar 24, 2016.

  1. FlySweep

    FlySweep Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    919
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    @Koth Ganesh .. go easy on him, man. Give him a taste of what the HD650 can do with the Crack.. If you want to ruin the hobby for him, intro the ZDS. LMAO.
     
  2. udin

    udin Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Likes Received:
    40
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    There has been some discussion about the removal of a backplate on the 400i, possibly around the time they changed to the 2.5mm connectors. Curious if the measurements for the 400i were done before or after that change, and if before, how the removal of said plate may have changed the FR. After reading about the 560 and the 400i, and initially thinking about purchasing a 560, I decided to pick up a 400i just for kicks (and to save a little money). Much of the discussion around the 560 centers on amp matching (which I didn't really want to invest in) and the brightness of the 560 if not matched well (I tend to gravitate towards warmer, more full-bodied headphones). Regardless, I haven't experienced any major unpleasantness in the treble, and wondered if perhaps some of that treble spike was smoothed out by removal of the back plate.
     
  3. Arun Kumar

    Arun Kumar Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Likes Received:
    183
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Chennai, India
    I'm sure I'm going to regret to know how bad my setup really is :)
     
  4. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    339
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The 400i is just stuck with that peak. I had a 2.5mm pair and that peak around 8k is just a deal breaker.
     
    Dino and udin like this.
  5. trl

    trl Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Likes Received:
    38
    Dislikes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Iasi, Romania
    Hello and excuse my ignorance, but could you please tell me what headamp have you been using to performs the measurements from http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hifiman-headphone-compendium.1685/ ? I'm mostly interested the amp used for the HE-560 because I found a cheap pair to purchase and need to see if the amp I'm using now might drive them well or not (2 x 1.5W/50 ohms).

    Many thanks,
    Raul.
     
  6. gibtg

    gibtg Rando

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    United States
    I see HiFiMAN is now selling the Sundara's stock ear pad and calling it the Palipad, please measure a HE560 with some of those on!
     
  7. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

    Executed
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    176
    Dislikes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I boyght the HE560 V2 from Adorama, and I don't know which pads it'll come with. Hopefully the Focus A pads. All the pictures show you is that it's a hybrid pad.

    Does anyone know of any big-boy-pads that will have a positive effect on the FR in addition to the increase in comfort? I'm thinking ZMF lambskins, Brainwavz round XL hybrids, Dekoni, Cascadia Impact, etc etc. I need that big fat couch-like pad comfort with lots of space for my ears, but I hate when pads make things sound bad.

    The Focus A graph looks phenominal compared to the stock graph, and I've seen HE400i measurements with alpha pads where it looked the same except the sub bass had an upward ramp to it instead of flat or rolled off. Pleather and leather can add grainy treble harshness while eating the high airy presence. That is not what I want here.
     
  8. cereal killer

    cereal killer Rando

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Italy
  9. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Friend MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,961
    Dislikes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    REW (Room Equalization Wizard)

    I believe it’s a Java based SW that supports ASIO and does a great job at performing driver characterization, equalization, and room correction.

    It includes a real time analyzer (RTA) and further supports comon distortion tests.

    The author is @JohnM.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  10. cereal killer

    cereal killer Rando

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Italy
    Thank you!
    Is there anyway a tutorial dedicated to measurements on headphones using REW?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  11. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

    Executed
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    176
    Dislikes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    43
    This is for the MiniDSP EARS rig, but the same procedure applies to any other mic. The EARS is just a microphone, anyway. They go on about using it to do EQ too, but you can ignore that. They show the calibration files they made for EQ-ing, but if you use the normal kind of calibration file, you get a more normal looking graph.

    https://www.minidsp.com/applications/headphone-equalization/headphone-eq-with-rew-ears
     
    ultrabike likes this.
  12. cereal killer

    cereal killer Rando

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Italy
    Please, can you share your CSD settings? Thanks!
     
  13. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,959
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Did @Bill-P ever post his mods for the He-560? I found the Changstar thread but didn't see it there. Having trouble searching here, getting a search string too short message. I just got one and I like a lot of things about it, but the treble is a little too much for me. I need to get a hold of the Focus-A pads (without the perfs), but was wondering what else was done. I'd like to tame the treble (and wouldn't mind a bit more bass).
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  14. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    339
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Have you tried the "Jerg" modifications yet? Sealing up the pads (Focus A in my case) is probably the best thing you can do to help with the bass. The rugliner in front of the driver does make it a little bit more inefficient if that is a concern.
     
    FlySweep and fraggler like this.
  15. brencho

    brencho Loves pumping iron (Moderator)

    Staff Member Friend
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,451
    Dislikes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    LA
    I dunno what Bill did to these but yeah until he responds (things take longer to reach Southeast Asia) I'd prob play with rug liner and thin felt, rug liner first, then maybe thin felt on top (or half circle for rear half of cup).

    If these are just circles like the older hifiman, you could always grab some brainwavz pads or zmf/alpha pads. Anyone do that with these headphones?
     
    fraggler and E_Schaaf like this.
  16. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,959
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    In front, as in ear side? I have some rugliner and various felts and foams to try. I also have a ton of pads (MrS Alpha pads, Brainwavz HM5, ZMF lambskin and ZMF cowhides) I can try once my extra rings come from Hifiman.
     
  17. brencho

    brencho Loves pumping iron (Moderator)

    Staff Member Friend
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,451
    Dislikes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    LA
    Nice hell yeah, I bet you'll find a good sounding combo. You can also use double sided tape (carefully not to tear any leather from the pads) if you get impatient, which is what @E_Schaaf does.

    Yeah for the rug liner and felt do it on the ear side. With driver facing you, I'd go rugliner first, then check it, then mayyb felt circle or half circle on top.
     
    fraggler and E_Schaaf like this.
  18. Ray

    Ray Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,592
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    On the range
    I’ve got a shitload of both rugliner & doubleface tape. Anyone in need feel free to pm me
     
    cskippy likes this.
  19. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: Upscale Audio (Thread Judge Code-6 District)

    Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    Dislikes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Pasadena, CA
    Home Page:
    Sorry to bring back an old thread, but now that I've spent a fair amount of time with each of the early HFMs, I thought I'd comment on the compendium with some footnotes -

    HE400

    Stock - V-shaped in a perpetually noticeable way. Scooped in the upper mid-lower treble. Ringing, fatiguing top octave, plasticy timbre, overly crisp, but nicely textured bass. Only really pleasing with electronic instrumentals. Lots of driver rebound with abrupt impulses, audible ringing. Doesn’t manifest in a bad way with actual music.

    Modded - If done right, can end up only slightly withdrawn in the upper mids, with a smoother top end, a bit more body. Still slightly tapey sounding, but enjoyable and more versatile than stock. Can be a bit tighter dynamically but still remains bouncy and extended in release time.


    HE4

    Stock - Lean timbre, very airy and pacy, quite dynamic and resolving for a single-magnet planar. Treble distortion spikes are definitely audible and can be fatiguing even though the level doesn’t feel beyond that of the mids and bass.

    Modded - The timbre and distortion peaks can’t really be changed much (it's a characteristic of the driver itself) but with a more sloping response (with mods) or targeted scoops where the distortion manifests, it can actually feel both dark-ish and extremely zippy at the same time. Quite unique and addictive in this regard. Great for energetic, brightly mixed music. These might have my favorite mids of the bunch. Smooth and silky. “Fast bass” might not physically exist, but it feels fast on these (probably a timbre thing). This headphone really surprised me and has a novelty factor beyond most on this list.


    HE500

    Stock - Most listenable in stock configuration by a big margin. No hot spots in the FR, easily listenable, maybe a bit lacking in microdetail compared to some of the others. Dynamics are solid and tight if not as incisive in one way or another as on HE4/5/5LE/6.

    Modded (WIP) - Doesn’t really need all that much by way of damping. A simple pad change can accentuate different parts of the FR to suit a variety of tastes. Doesn’t scale much technically with mods, though system synergy can yield gains here. Just an easy and smooth listen regardless of mod implementation.


    HE5 (early woody)

    Stock - Extremely hot top octave and a half with some ringing. Feels slightly withdrawn where the middle-mids meet the upper-mids, making snares sound a bit more like “snip” than “pop”. Feels somewhat up-sloping though fairly even without massive suckouts in the bottom half of the spectrum. Not remotely a genre master - picky of content. If the HE6 is punchy and the 5LE snappy, the 5 is somewhere in between.

    Modded (Code-X) - Up-slope becomes fairly flat through most of the spectrum. Can have a midbass accentuation with the proper pads that others lack. Still a lot of presence above 8k (too much for me). Attacks aren’t as sharp as HE6 and decays feel more restrained / damped. Staging feels feathered from the center more so than HE4/5LE/6, which are wider and more open in direct comparison. Good imaging and separation though. Will sound better than a modded HE6 on many rigs. Different Code-X's can sound different from each other too, evidently.


    HE5 (reissue)

    Stock - Bright and dark at the same time. Weird wiggly midrange response. Content-picky in a different way than the early HE5. Bloomier, looser dynamics than early HE5. Slightly thicker timbre, but sometimes feels blurry or fuzzy. Technicalities possibly slightly better than HE500, but worse tonality. Stages wider than HE500 or OG HE5, but also has a more diffusive image. Minor 5k distortion spike not all will notice.

    Modded (WIP) - I prefer a downward slope on this headphone. It seems to mesh fairly well with the thickness of timbre making it flatter leaner recordings quite well. Likes to be played loud. Can be tuned to sound vaguely like a ZMF tone-wise. Doesn’t play as well with airier mods IMO as it’s difficult to control the specific jagged treble edges up top without also affecting the upper-midrange balance.


    HE5LE

    Stock - Like the HE4 with more meat on its bones. Definitely sounds closer to HE4 than either HE5. Distortion peaks in the treble are gone, but the general mid-treble balance is significantly higher (with a ridge in the response somewhere) making it about equally as fatiguing. Great bass and midrange balance and texture, but distractingly sparkly.

    Modded (Code-5LE) - Treble peak is mostly gone but the general area is still slightly elevated. Crisp and energetic, but also extremely smooth and dynamically quick. Never becomes congested. Along with HE4 and 4-screw HE6, the least perceptually veiled. Always engaging, but sometimes fatiguing. Feels closer to “athletic” than “lean”. Wants to get up and go.


    HE6 (4-screw)

    Stock - Similar to early HE5 in terms of tonal balance, but with a more full-bodied midrange, more robust dynamics, and a more extended stage. Treble is ringy, etched, glassy, and overly hot. Somehow possibly more fatiguing than the OG HE5. Slightly nasal midrange tone.

    Modded - Can sound a variety of ways depending on implementation, ranging from bassy and thick to airy and sweet. Dynamics can also be affected in a variety of ways. The punchiest, tightest, most satisfying slam you’ll get from a planar. Better controlled transients than 6-screw. Treble can be nearly completely fixed without adding veil or affecting the midrange. Sense of solidity and weight in the bass, though it doesn’t bloom and won’t differentiate well unless an appropriate amp is used.


    HE6 (6-screw)

    Stock - Sounds better than stock 4-screw - more appropriate treble balance, slightly looser bass that makes it feel easier to drive and more forgiving… but also slightly veiled.

    Modded (Code-6) - Stages widest of any HFM, but has a more diffusive image than HE4, OG HE5, HE5LE, and 4-screw HE6. Difficult to control the treble without worsening the veil or affecting midrange balance. Slightly jumpy transients with a less controlled decay than 4-screw. A very energetic and engaging listen, but not forgiving... and can be fatiguing at the listening level where the dynamics and bass feel at their best. Haven't had a chance to implement new modification methods, and don't want to undo LFF's work. Might get a fresh pair and see if the above issues can be fixed with a different approach.


    HE560

    Stock - Mostly agreeable tone, but feels dynamically weak compared to almost all of the above. Good sense of microdetail though. Not bright, but plasticy “fake” timbre, the progenitor of all of HFM’s later headphones in most of the aforementioned qualities (haven't spent time with the newest crop though). Not fatiguing, but also not really engaging despite decent technicalities.

    Modded - Similar to HE500, most of the mods retain a lot of the character of stock both in terms of dynamics and timbre, but FR can be shifted quite a bit with pads, venting, very light front damping, etc.


    HE4xx

    Stock - Very similar to HE560 but with slightly worse technicalities. Not all that much like HE400.

    Modded - Easy to craft a variety of tonal profiles given smooth and mostly even starting response. Surprisingly susceptible to change with pad swaps. Fun to tweak and test stuff out with for this purpose, and can be an enjoyable listen, but will never have the dynamic energy or extended staging of the others listed above, though modest gains can be made.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
    PTS, captkirk, sacredgates and 9 others like this.
  20. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

    Friend MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,182
    Dislikes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    TX
    Nicely comprehensive comments! Thanks @E_Schaaf

    Btw, did you have any chance to hear or test the recent HE6SE? It is likely to use 6-screw he6 drivers .. but different pads and frame could change tonality and others. Considering 4-screw he6 (and even 6-screw one to less extent) is nearly unobtanium, I believe future modding clients (including myself) might be interested in modding he6se.
     
    E_Schaaf likes this.

Share This Page