HQPlayer Upsampling Runs on a Pi4 - Invigorate your digital audio!

Discussion in 'Computer Audiophile: Software, Configs, Tools' started by Woland, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. Woland

    Woland Friend

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    Thanks! I'll clarify the instructions based on your points.

    What I'd stress is when you feed the DAC at native resolution, upsampling happens inside the DAC. The built-in upsampling filter has to be low latency for gaming and video, and it has to operate with limited memory and CPU power. On my Gungnir that upsampling process outputs 384kHz sample rate into the DAC chip. I'm not sure about the Modius.

    Using HQPlayer just moves the upsampling process out of the DAC and to software which you can control more finely, and which has access to more CPU and memory resources. That shouldn't really change the sense of resolution because what goes to the DAC chip is the same resolution, it's just achieved in a different way.
     
  2. Noodlz

    Noodlz Almost "Made"

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    oo interesting. i thought that when i feed the native resolution at 44.1 from roon to the DAC it outputs 44.1 without any upsampling? I'm under the impression my roon / moode setup loads things bit-perfect mode as they are, and then the DAC just converts /processes that digital with whatever filters and dithering into analog signal for my amps. Does it naturally upsample with in the DAC and then downsample back into the native resolution and then out to analog? :confused:
     
  3. dericchan1

    dericchan1 Acquaintance

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    Not true, there are only very few dacs in the market that are truly NOS (non over sampling). Woland is correct that what ever digital track gets fed to your dac, regardless of playback app, your dac will perform the internal upsampling prior to the conversion.

    The upsampling capability of your dac chip will almost always be inferior compared to outsourcing the upsampling work to your external computer with much better processing power.
    Deric
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  4. Noodlz

    Noodlz Almost "Made"

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    fascinating. I had no idea that DACs do oversampling regardless, but that make sense though come to think of it, otherwise why would things be called non-oversampling lol.

    I think my initial impressions probably came from the NS9 Dither didnt suit my tastes / the sonics im used to, and perhaps it wasnt a resolution issue but rather a sound shaping issue. I will say though that playing with all the configurations and their effects are super fun
     
  5. dericchan1

    dericchan1 Acquaintance

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    For 24/192 pcm you can also try the lns15 dither. You should also “grayed” for rate family.

    You can play around with the various filters, some of them might be too resource demanding for the rpi4 to handle and will stutter, but most others should work. For pcm my favourite filter is probably Sinc-L and sinc-m

    Deric
     
  6. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Can you set one dedicated Pi4 without a hat on the network, then setup roon to go to HQPlayer first (on dedicated Pi4) to upsample then to multiple dacs in a group in Roon? I have 4 x ropieeexl (Pi3) endpoints with Pi2aes on all of them.
     
  7. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    You can send to one NAA ie 1 RopieeXL endpoint at a time from HQPLAYER based on my short experience with it. How it works is you select HQplayer as output device in ROON and then in HQPlayer you select the endpoint where you want to send the music and I don’t think we have option to select multiple
     
  8. Druid

    Druid Hyperactive Tree

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    Definitely agree with you on dither. NS-9 seemed to suck the life out of the music. Switching to TPDF immediately opened things up. This is with Pi2AES > May L1 > EC AF > BLH chain. Not sure if dither demands a beefier system or not. I'm running Roon > hqplayer NAA from an old laptop with a seventh-gen i5.
     
  9. lithiumnk

    lithiumnk Acquaintance

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    Gentooplayer (linux distro) on rpi4 supports camilla dsp & gui. I'm using both spotify & offline files with PMEQ/convolution. I've tried accurate async/ synchronous upsampling settings. There is a free async mode where custom settings can be added but I've not explored this option as I don't know what settings to enter.
     
  10. Antastik

    Antastik Rando

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    Great thread this one! I would like to follow this guide with my Raspberry pi 4b but..... I don't have an ethernet cable where the Raspberry and Dac are located. Any chance to add wifi connection somehow? Than you!
     
  11. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    Pi4 has Wi-Fi inbuilt. You just need to enable it. Some OS has this feature to switch on Wi-Fi as part of their UI like RopieeXL and in some OS you have to SSH into pi to enable like DietPi. But you don’t need any hardware to enable Wi-Fi in Pi4 and it performs very well .
     
  12. Antastik

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    Yes, my question was related to Hqplayer OS: does this OS support the wifi that is built in the Raspberry pi?
    The reason for asking is that other NAA daemons for the pi are constantly buffering over wifi and I was wondering is Hqplayer OS is better at streaming. Please let me know, thank you
     
  13. Woland

    Woland Friend

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    I'd like to know the answer too. But you've got a better shot at an answer if you pursue the question on the AudioPhileStyle.com support forums.
     
  14. dericchan1

    dericchan1 Acquaintance

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    I have windows desktop version of Hqplayer in the basement sending upsampled 24/192 pcm tracks to my pi2aes in my bedroom through wifi. No issues at all.
     
  15. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    He is asking about the HQPlayer Embedded version that runs on Raspberry Pi, so it is not the same.

    On the Audiophile Style forum, the author of HQPlayer wrote:
    https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ayer-embedded/?do=findComment&comment=1163810

    HQPlayer OS includes wpa_supplicant and WiFi drivers. Just not officially supported feature since it needs some manual configuration, unlike wired ethernet that can be plug and play.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
  16. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    If the Wi-Fi doesn’t work and there is no router near your hi-fi setup then you can get those $20 extenders with LAN out. So those extenders will connect to Wi-Fi and will connect to your Pi via LAN cable.
     
  17. Antastik

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    Yep tried that, but the problem remains. 768khz sample rate seems kinda bugged in NAA daemon. So according to your experience going wired is the only way?
     
  18. TupuHumuhumunukunukuapuaa

    TupuHumuhumunukunukuapuaa Rando

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    I was looking around for info and discussions for AudioLinux and HQPlayer (I own Desktop), and I noticed some comments about HQPlayer and its quality. A PI2AES was in the system.

    So, I have a PI2AES and it was a god send, allowing me to send I2S to my Topping DX7Pro with SparkOS SS3602 op-amps installed. Fast forward some time and after a ton of listening and testing, I can say that running the Rpi USB through a DDC to that same Topping DAC improves the sound dramatically. Now feeding the output in DSD128 to my PSAudio GainCell DAC saw the same improvement. The DDC is a Douk U2 Pro currently going for $65 on Amazon. It converts USB2.0 audio to coax, toslink, I2S LVDS over HDMI. Don't use a switching power supply, either use USB power (I use an iFi Purifier 3 inline) or use a battery pack.

    Douk Audio U2 PRO XMOS XU208 Digital Interface <--You can't go wrong for $65 to try out the theory, and I don't think you'll REALLY need to buy a more expensive device unless you need that functionality or it performs better. It's entirely possible that another DDC device could be quieter (background device level, carrier signal noise), which could further improve things.

    In my opinion, the HQPlayer output at DSD256 sounds better than DSD128, but both sound great. My HQPlayer settings are SDM, Closed-form 16M for both 1x and Nx, ASDM7EC 512fs+

    Closed-form 16M sounds really nice and balanced, Sinc M is fun and feels more exciting, with Sinc Mx and Sinc L feeling like variations. Between Sinc M, Mx and L it's splitting hairs. Out of those I don't think there's a better filter for all things,so being able to change them up is great. Otherwise, I'd be spending money on DACs trying to chase the ideal sound.

    With a DDC in place expect a more coherent presentation, spatial detail, bass textures should come through, bass should feel deeper and tighter. How you send the stream shouldn't matter, whether it's HQPlayer or just regular unmolested PCM. Now, if your DAC has an excellent USB implementation and is clean in its processing, then the DDC may offer minimal benefit or none at all.

    I2S over HDMI beats all the other outputs on the PI2AES and the Douk U2 Pro.

    I've got a few Rpi4s sitting around so I'll try out HQPlayerOS. I'm curious how well this will work out, I'll probably end up building a little setup to replace the system in the garage.

    Since no one asked, I'm running the PS Audio Stellar stack with Tekton Moab and the cabling is AQ Mckenzie XLRs, Cinnamon HDMI, Forest USB, whatever that14GA stuff from BestBuy is called with AQ banana plugs. The DAC is connected via XLR, the Rpi is powered by an IfI Power Elite via the PI2AES' power jack.
     
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  19. Crow9891

    Crow9891 Rando

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    Hi, can you elaborate more on this? I am looking to feed Spotify on my laptop or smartphone to HQPlayer on Pi via USB

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022

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