Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    There’s a reason the NS10m Studio is still used and still gets results. Look at that impulse response and waterfall decay plot What the hell are they going to replace it with? The ATC SCM20 is about it.

    Lol the Avantone mix cube sucks ass. Auratone remade the 5C and the avantone is a a major turd in comparison. I can’t imagine what their NS10 recreation is gonna sound like

    Uh the Behringer genelec knockoffs are awful dude. Supposedly they used to be 1 to 1 clones with shittier drivers back when Behringer was made in Germany and had just of a poor reputation as they do now with the Behringer City made trash but dude this shit is horrific and should not be compared to NS10 or The old school headfi “midfi trio”. Wtf man

    The cheap fostex stuff sucks too. I didn’t know a four inch driver could be mud wrestling but the 6301b is that bad
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  2. rtaylor76

    rtaylor76 Can't wipe his tag

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    Auratones are only used to check mixes on worst case scenario. You have to remember, you mix must sound good on everything from a mono clock radio to decent sounding systems. Heck, I knew guys that bought this one cheap tiny Sony boombox because it had an RCA line input.

    PS - Aratones Are referred to as "Horrortones", because they are a horror to listen to. Lol
     
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  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Nah the auratones have a semblance of detail to them for the frequencies they cover. It depends on the revision too. Lots of midrange stuff is mixed on them and they have their fans. The Avantones are far far worse.
     
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  4. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I didn't say the Mixcubes were good... just yardsticks that most people have heard. I'm not crazy about the Audio Technica M50, but just about everyone at one point has owned or heard it, so it serves as a basis for making comparisons.

    Are the Behringer Truths bad now? It's been forever and a day since I've heard them. I used to have the Genelec 1030 which was the predecessor to the 1031 that Behringer ripped off for their 2030. I never got to compare them side by side, but from memory the Behringer went deeper but everything else was kinda... more rattly? Still, for the $120ish bucks that the Behringer goes for I'd take that over Mackies or KRKs in that price tier based on sonics alone.

    I'm not quite sure where in the Behringer lineage the Truths came about. A number of years back Behringer shifted manufacturing plants and actually tightened up quality control so their stuff became less of a fire hazard. Then funny enough, Mackie moved into their old stomping grounds and that's when their SRM cabinets tanked in quality (and why most people still take the v1 over the early run v2's). At least this is what I've heard from folks in the biz, who heard from other folks in the biz, who probably read it on gearslutz written by some cousin of a guy who knew a guy.
     
  5. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    I guess but the JBL 305 has gone for 200. The Behringer Genelec clones are worse in different ways and you can get them to distort very easily.

    I read Genelec sued Behringer and the ancient 90s Genelec clones are better. I heard about the Mackies getting worse. I've heard some older Mackies that aren't horrible but the current line is trash fi. Presonus were also horrible.
     
  6. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    True, between the JBL 305 and Behringer 2030, I'd pick the JBL unless utter bass volume is what I wanted.

    I didn't like any of the cheap Presonus models I've heard. There was a neat horn/coaxial one that was nice, but it was also five times the price.

    I think a lot of people have tried to sue Behringer, or just gave up because it wasn't financially worthwhile to go after them. It's a shame, and one of the reasons why I try not to buy Behringer in the first place.

    The old Mackie SRM350 and 450 v1's were good for what they were: Workhorse PA's that could take a beating and not set themselves on fire like the Behringer equivalents. They also had nice wide dispersion angles, unlike the QSC K-series which were rather beamy. They were also tolerable and less honky up close making them handy monitoring wedges in a pinch. Most portable PAs are marketed as floor-wedge-able, and technically yeah they are, but aren't very good at it. The Mackies are less-lousy than the rest.

    Then along came v2's where manufacturing was moved to China and into Behringer's old manufacturing plants. Surprise surprise, the v2's started dying (most commonly overheating/burning out, a trademark of early Behringer failures) and Mackie's reputation tanked and nearly killed them until they got their act together and rebuilt their rep on their mixers.

    I haven't heard the SRM v3's yet, but I hope they've improved. Avoid anything from the "Thump" lineup.
     
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  7. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Thump worse than Rokits?

    The Mackie Big Knobs, both active and passive are awful too btw
     
  8. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I'm pretty sure that any decent 2-way, when EQ'ed to match the NS10's 12db/oct roll-off will match the clean impulse response with even better midrange accuracy and treble. Look here and you'll see that the NS10 has some advantages, but it's hardly magic. Can't have bass sticking around if there's not that much bass to begin with.

    We might not like it, but he's pretty big in the modern metal mixing scene and many people look up to him.

    I'm not going to argue taste, but the jazz listener scene is pretty dedicated (and, sadly, small) and they do buy records. And stuff like ECM albums are usually produced impressively well.

    The big studios do have money, but other than big-ass mains a la Augspurger, Quested et al to impress clients, they don't seem to splurge on the near fields that often. It's not rare to see some yestergeneration Genelecs sitting on the desk, rather than superhitech Barefoots, coax Gennies or whathaveyou. When I worked in the industry the best client one would ask for would actually be a German dentist dabbling in studio stuff, as they didn’t have to sweat about the bottom line and always had the deutschmarks for decent gear.

    But yeah, 95% of the music never gets listened to and from the remaining 5%, 95% doesn’t make any money.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  9. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Well, they're different categories entirely. Thumps being PA cabinets and Rokits being monitors... unless there are some really big or really small versions of each that I haven't seen.
     
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  10. Forza AudioWorks

    Forza AudioWorks MOT: Forza AudioWorks

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    Since the monitor talk is on, has anyone here heard Dutch&Dutch 8c? A bit pricey, but I've found them gorgeously sounding.
     
  11. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I've just heard about them and I'd very much like to hear them. They're a bit too rich for my blood, but I like the concept overall and find the passive cardoid polarity forming more elegant than Kii solution with extra woofers.
     
  12. Psalmanazar

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    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Anyone have any issues with the KRK V series? I recently heard the 6" woofer model of the latest versions and was very surprised by how cohesive they were despite some warmth and hiss. Does anyone know if the 8" loses a lot of midrange detail and definition or becomes too v shaped versus the 6"?
     
  13. rtaylor76

    rtaylor76 Can't wipe his tag

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    If you are fine with the V shaped of the 6" KRK, the 8" digs deeper and only slightly more scooped. I never found any KRK's have much resolve, but more boom-hiss.
     
  14. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Are you sure they weren't Rockits? I'm talking about the current V series with the matching kevlar woofer and tweeter, not the massively bass boosted Rockit cheap crap or the older stuff with the metal focal tweeters.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  15. rtaylor76

    rtaylor76 Can't wipe his tag

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    Could be. Then disregard what I said. Although I always felt KRK had a pretty in-house sound.
     
  16. taisserroots

    taisserroots Friend

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  17. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

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  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I had some time at the store today to audition these. Mostly via bluetooth and youtube streaming mind you, and a bunch of noise in the background, but I was able to get a decent feel for them. As the most obvious point of comparison, the only other bluetooth monitors there were the iLouds. Those were... loud. Credit where it's due though, they aren't called micro monitors for nothing and what they can accomplish in that size is remarkable. The low end is obviously undergoing some trickery, but it doesn't sound like a fartbox like other so called monitors of that size.

    Moving on to the RM5:
    - remarkably shallow footprint; seriously it's less deep than the iLoud, this is a major space consideration especially for desks are are more wide than deep
    - good connectivity over bluetooth, I wandered a good 30 ft away and it was still good; iLoud fuzzed at maybe 20'
    - great low end that wasn't farty, probably due to no ports, but it wasn't as clean as my ATCs, but better than the iLoud.
    - lacking coherence on bass drone heavy tracks; Massive Attack's Angel was mush, but something like Get Lucky was much better as the lines are more distinct; the iLoud did Angel better in terms of oomphing it out, but everything else was more crammed
    - I possibly didn't like the crossover point or maybe I wasn't hunching low enough (the demo table was at waist level, and I wasn't about to go stooping on my bad knees) but it felt like a discontinuity somewhere in the upper mids, not "sizzly"... more like "crunchy"? Difficult to judge this when there's some teenage kid trying to play Smoke on the Water in the background in the shop
    - outside of that crunchy zone though, clarity was great for something in this price bracket
    - very broad/diffuse sound; localization would be its weak point, but a random movie trailer sounded great
    - stereotypical audiophile track of female vocal + cello was actually really really nice; felt very intense without being wishy washy/overly airy
    - they did not break apart at high volume except at the very max position
    - mounting brackets are a nice option
    - in terms of cost: the value of this thing is definitely in the connectivity and low footprint. Sound quality per dollar is roughly on par with other options in the price bracket. You can get better sound with a good cherry pick or waiting for a sale on other monitors
    - I think this would be a great tv or gaming rig sound system if you only have a small tv stand
     
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  19. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    This might be better in the all-purpose advice thread, but I'm considering essentially consolidating myself to largely rely on IEMs and speakers/monitors.

    I use the modded HD650s frequently still, so I'll at least keep around the RME ADI-2 DAC and my Garage1217 Project Sunrise III, but I find myself mostly swapping between my Future Sonics MG5HX and my mediocre speaker setup.

    Presently, I tend to use a Focusrite Clarett 2Pre USB going into Presonus Eris E4.5 monitors and a Polk Audio PSW10 subwoofer more frequently than my Sennheisers.

    I also find I prefer speakers when playing guitar, even at night when I have to turn the volume down. I get better tone from something like Bias Amp 2 and speakers than I can get from a real guitar amplifier when the volume has to be low.

    Anyway, I'm trying to figure out what I should target. Monitors? Speakers?

    The Adam A7X seem to stand out in a lot of searches. Would I need a separate subwoofer with something of that size?

    I don't listen particularly loud most of the time and I'm in a smallish room (12x15 maybe?), so I don't need something monstrous.

    Budget? I'd say flexible but preferably under $1500 for a pair if that's feasible. If not, then whatever. I can make it more of an aspiration than something that must happen right now. I'd still be reluctant to spend more than $3000 total on any speaker setup for now.
     
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  20. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    This is just my experience, but...

    I didn't like the Adam A3X and A7X. They're too V shape. That said, you wouldn't technically NEED subwoofers. However, to get that last bit of subbass, you would. I liked the Neumann KH120As with the RME ADI-2, and used the IEM output to hook a Rhythmik L20 to it. That or a Digi Nano with a Modi 2U to the subwoofer, and the Diginano to the RME...that way you can control the crossover easier than setting the EQ settings on the RME.

    Anyway, I'd say get a pair of KH120As. That's just me though.
     
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