Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    I forgot about this in my earlier post but even though I recced KRK Rockit gen 4 with the Kevlar drivers as okay and I like the V series, remember KRK is a Gibson brand. That’s means you will be disappointed eventually That means awful QC, cost cutting, and poor reliability. You know those plate amps are gonna fry. They won’t last for decades like JBL and Yamaha.
     
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  2. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Doing LSR 305 MK2 vs Genelec 8050A comparison with Soekris (custom low noise PSU, output straight without output opamps) as the source. This will be interesting...
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Good comparison for the limits of physics and speaker design too. Listen closely to the midrange and do not allow yourself to be wowed by the BOM and extension. Then consider what you can get for the price of each too...
     
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  4. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

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    I did hear both KH120 and A7X at a dealer and I would choose KH120 any day. For me the KH120 sounds smoother in the sense that no frequency band sticks out. With the Adams the top end does stick out and this is from someone who listens to active speakers with ribbon tweeters at home. The odd 11 Hz the Adam is supposed to go deeper (some tests say otherwise) would not bother me too much. Both are nearfields they are not made to blow you away, if you want the real bass feel you will need a sub anyway. Depending on the modal behaviour of your room (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-roommodes.htm) you may find out that in order to not experience bass bloat it might be a blessing in disguise that the speakers go not down too far.
    Go to the respective websites of Neumann and Adam and look what information is available, I think it is clear who knows their product better (Neumann will even show you the directivity).
    Then one man's dream is another one's nightmare. If you were in Europe you could order both at Thomann's with a 30 days return offer. In the end it does not help you if I like the speakers (or anybody else on this forum), they should please your ears. I do not know whether there is such a dealer in the States. Keep the RME and hook the speakers up to it, you might be pleasantly surprised.
    By the way Neumann uses class A/B for both tweeter and midrange/woofer, whereas Adam uses class D for the midrange/woofer. I am not opposed to class D amplification, but there are folks who avoid it like old Nick the holy water.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  5. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Going to write something tomorrow. Got everything set up in an old/new place that has decent acoustics.
     
  6. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Quick notes comparing 8050A to LSR305 MK2

    1. Track: Daft Punk - Recognizer (Tron: Legacy). Main thing here was how Gens bass was superb. It has insane control and rigidness all over FR that many systems lack. Otherwise, both systems were good to listen to. This track did not reveal too much about either system.

    2. Track: Daft Punk - The Game Has Changed (Tron: Legacy). What I notice here with LSR305MK2 is how subtle and clear it sounds. Midrange tone is very clean and delicate. High-frequency and imaging are good. The bass performance is decent, but boxy or in other words non-rigid (NB! This is a very technical track that many systems would fail at. ) Genelecs really take control of this track. Insane imaging and soundstage across the FR. Bass effects and what they sculpture here is insane ( compared to any studio monitors I have heard this far.) Gens have this more metallic sound on the highs. They sound different but very detailed and resolving. There is no Give. Anywhere.

    What is kind of creepy is that both systems are extremely clear... the way you want to listen to acoustic music. You want certain natural sound. JBLs weak spot is def. bass which isn't bad, but compared to the better systems it is obvious. I think that the JBLs bass is still decent. Bass leads are thick textured and have quite good tone. On the kickdrums, they can be good. Depends on the track, sometimes definitely rounded. Other times they sound 8 out of 10. Main take away here. Genelecs to their business here so well that the JBLs fall to shade. In the beginning, you hear multilayered percussion instruments in front and bass impacts in the back, so well spaced out and layered.

    (PS. to BWC members. Genelecs are good at putting their 8.5 out of 10 sound together in harmony. Imaging, dynamics, soundstage, bass extension, no breaking down at higher SPL)

    JBLs tweeter seems to be detailed, well extended, although I think Gens still out resolves these. I would say that JBLs tweeter might have a "more decent" tone to my ears, probably because of the silk dome. The problem seems to be that the sound isn't as well put together all around ( maybe due to the woofer because of lower fr components) so that you would get insanely detailed objects or sounds in space. In general the tweeter seems to perform very well.

    Positive for JBL is that they have decent soundstage and depth, It isn’t uber defined and as well layered in space and depends on the area of FR. Although compared to other cheaper monitors they have very coherent sound. A subwoofer might be worth considering with these to get a more impactful lower end.

    To be continued on rock and other genres.



    Size comparison. JBLs are in listening position.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  7. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Yeah Genelecs sound awesome. Genelec's current tweeter implementations are pretty great but here's something cool you can do that's pretty fun. Ignore the sound of the bass. Listen to the speed and timing of the bass on both, particularly kicks and how they interplay with bass lines. They're both ported but you can really start to hear the limits of physics at work here, especially on the newer style Genelec designs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  8. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Dude, you had the opportunity to post that subwoofer orgasm scene from Howard Stern's movie and you missed it.

    (I'll let you knuckleheads google that clip for yourselves)
     
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  9. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    How do you like the Clarett? I was looking into a Thunderbolt interface since my Prism Lyra doesn't seem to play well with an adapter.
     
  10. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I have the Clarett 2Pre USB version. Strangely, it has more than zero dropouts while my Scarlett 2i2 never had any. My Scarlett kicked the bucket over the weekend and I replaced it with the Clarett. Great sound but I'm trying to figure out what's going on with dropouts.

    In other news...

    I still don't know what I'll do with nearfields. I'm in the research phase now and can't really buy nice monitors for a bit, but I've been leaning toward the Neumann + subwoofer option.
     
  11. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    As a non-popular option, if you go without a subwoofer then a sealed cabinet won't provide the oomph down below but will actually reach lower than a similar ported speaker.

    On the Focusrite, have you tried running the usual latencymon and dpc latency checker?
     
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  12. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Yes. Genelec strength lies in its ability to do everything to around 7to9 out of 10. It does not have big weak spots in sound. You can listen to anything on these and have a great experience. They are tools for the sound engineers after all. Certain high-end speaker being built *severely* out resolved Gens and probably even HD800(hps do have their limits...).
     
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  13. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    If you listened to both pairs laid out like in the picture, then obviously JBL’ s will have a more pronounced soundstage due to a wider stereo base.

    A better test would be summing mono to each DAC channel and drive a single speaker. Place them both side by side in the center and match their SPL by one of the smartphone apps. This way you can do fast switching and neither of the speakers will be at a disadvantage. Harman spin-o-rama testing shows that mono listening is extremely predictive to preference in stereo and correlates better with measured performance than stereo listening.
     
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  14. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Check your memory buffers, process priority, and latency settings. The Focusrite original generation of USB gear is basically non functional. They fixed it with the 2nd generation. It's very hard to tell which one you're buying sometimes. I've had nothing but bad experiences with Focusrite USB stuff but ymmv

    The Steinberg stuff is still the best for cheap stuff interfaces. Best pres. Most stable drivers. EDIT: Also the quality scales. You don't just get more like with Focusrite.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  15. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    I am driving... short answer. Only showcase pic. Size comparison.
     
  16. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    I am going to try that mono setup
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
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  17. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

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    I bought a Scarlett Solo in order to measure using REW first, when my antivirus program told that its driver tried to report back home I uninstalled the driver and send the thing back to the dealer. Got a Steinberg afterwards, upgraded from a UR12 to a UR22 and these work(ed) without a problem and do not try to spy on me (at least according to my antivirus program).
     
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  18. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    I dunno I feel Genelecs just got outmoded and the newer stuff doesn't compete. They're speakers for reading a phone book in an anechoic chamber. Old Genelecs are cool but the newer design ones are more placement dependent and smoothed over. It seems they went from making "stuff to compliment an NS10 to make music with" in 1993 to making "stuff with cheaper parts, that costs a lot and looks good on paper to mark up for state owned European broadcast corporations" in 2019. The DSP ones are truly WTF with the oval woofers behind the aluminum baffle and shit tons of DSP. When you figure out what drivers they use, they can't just be eqing up woofer with good power handling and slapping some limiters on it so you won't melt hte voice coil like most two way ported active speakers do. The DSP ones give this cohesive presentation but when you hear them next to stuff less messed with like Adams and Dyns (I don't even like Dynaudio speakers), there is something rather artificial sounding about them despite that it's super cool you get the "BIG PICTURE". The price is also insane for the DSP ones. 8k a pair for something the size of an 8" woofer monitor? What the hell is that? You can get some refridgerator sized stuff for that. The huge horizontal Adam/HEDD, KH420, Geithain, sicko hifi towers, PSI, ATC, are all just less or slightly more. You're dropping $$$$ for the DSP ones, might as well get something else that will blow shit up.

    The UR44 is a slight upgrade but the UR824 is the flagship and super bang for the buck. It destroys Focusrites and the UA Apollo and MOTU stuff. It just needs a MIDI input. The only "problems" are USB only, the line inputs can get real nasty on the ADC if you run them super hot, and the Yamaha pres saturate when pushed. Nothing like a Neve does but it can be cool or bad.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  19. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: Upscale Audio (Thread Judge Code-6 District)

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    A good friend of mine who is not an audiophile by any means has the new Rockit 5s in a bedroom recording setup.

    No room treatments, no meticulous placement. They honestly impressed me quite a bit, so much so that I would consider the 10s for myself. Well extended and dynamic for the size.

    Obviously not like my L55s with the 14" woofers, but cheap, easy, and better sounding than many (much more expensive) home hifi and headphone systems I've heard. I preferred my buddy's 5s to the bigger near-field Genelecs in the studio where I used to work too, which always felt flat both in terms of staging and dynamics.
     
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  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Were you able to test long term power handling on the new rockets?? The JBL 305 kinda falls apart and compress when pushed but if you do it for too long, the sound goes to hell too. The upper bass it has kinda eventually just blurs and becomes mud in the background when you really really push it. The 308 has more headroom but it is such a flabby speaker to start with.

    I was super impressed by the 5" rocket generation 5 or whatever with the kevlar woofers. They sound awesome for hte price. I'd take them over any Fostex or closed can easily. I was super impressed by them. Just having a bit more low end than the JBLs while not being as awful as the older rockets means that they are much more pleasant to listen to despite the big boy KRK coloration (not the old krk rocket exorcist pea soup vomit coloration) versus the JBL 305. They're just KRKs so reliability will be awful long term. The 8" was less cohesive despite the extension when I ABed than the 5" and 6.5" just like all the other KRKs past and present I've heard. The 10" three way isn't out yet but should be more cohesive than the flabbier 8". Also the Kevlar tweeter is a little soft and a little bit "splatty" but it's not nearly as offensive as the Adam T series, Yamaha off axis, or Presonus.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019

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