Not a lot of DAC talk on here...

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by The Alchemist, Oct 10, 2015.

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  1. Guido Del Giudice

    Guido Del Giudice Rando

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    B.M.C Puredac\amp....simply stunning in balanced mode with HD-800s
     
  2. bclark8923

    bclark8923 Rando

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    Building a second system (main system is Gungnir Multibit) and looking for a dedicated DAC with SE output feeding into a speaker system (Schiit Wyrd + NAD 316BEE + Ascend Sierra-2 Speakers). Doesn't need anything fancy at all.

    Any recommendations?

    Looking at:

    Bifrost 4490
    NAD D 1050
    Musical Fidelity V-90
    Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100
    Chord Mojo (used)

    Anyone heard these and have ideas? Looking for a very neutral sound
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  3. Griffon

    Griffon 2nd biggest asshole on SBAF

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    @purrin would you please move this to the all purpose advice thread?

    Also OP would you please provide information in regard of the rest of your secondary chain? Synergy matters.
     
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  4. bclark8923

    bclark8923 Rando

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    Updated first post!
     
  5. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    with my echo audiofire 2 which uses an AK4620 converter(not sure if a or b since i never checked) i feel my only upgrade would be the Yggdrasil or some sort..cause so far for years i been happy with my echo 2's performance as a dac and transport and one few pieces i ever kept by my side..only thing i ever compared to it were ht receivers and cd players that used circuss logic and bur-brown dacs and always found my echo to perform cleaner without sounding too ''digital'', ''tizzy'', ''fizzy, ''buzzy'' in the top-end and air or however put it. but, the Yggdrasil is too far out my reach price wise. if schiit did like a monthly payment plan like american music supply or something then that'll be something obtainable to me anytime but, for now at it's current price tag,i'm gonna wait good while cause my echo has been doing me good and i can only assume it's decent enough dac from experience i have with through all the amps,speakers,headphones,ect. i put through it and was able hear clear difference in each setting.

    i'll get my speaker projects out of way first and probably one day put money toward an hd800 as endgame headphone since my beloved 240df's which is no longer with me and the hd800 uses a somewhat similar ''diffused-field'' type equalization. i always saw the hd800 as a complete upgrade from the 240df's and i use to own stax stuff too which i liked but, never used much since i always had speakers and my 240df's sounded nice enough to me for headphone listening. and then i'll put money towards a Yggdrasil but, probably then they'll probably have something way better.
     
  6. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I should resurrect mine. On the other hand, Linux and firewire audio worked, in the end, but it was never exactly fun, and I don't suppose that's changed

    :eek: ... Not even sure where it was during the flood.
     
  7. Zed Bopp

    Zed Bopp Friend

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    Does anyone have experiences with Apogee Duet (1st version) as a DAC? I've been using it for years now, and I wonder how it fares against current under 1000 dollar/euro models. It is pretty ancient now for a digital device, so what would/could be the benefits from updating it?

    Here's my current rig running from an iMac.
    [​IMG]

    Cheers!
     
  8. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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  9. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    Tried one ages ago against my Echo Audiofire. I remember thinking that the Duet was a bit better.
    For reference I regarded the Audiofire I had as a questionable upgrade from better mobo onboard sound-chips, if at all.

    I'd bet that something like Bifrost is going to be rather big step up for half the money.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  10. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    On the basis of its reputation, I would have been tempted to save up for one, years ago, had it not been for the small matter of having to buy an Apple machine to go with it. That was never going to happen o_O
     
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  11. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    "Supported currently on MAC and Linux, and soon to be Windows/PC."


    Deal breaker for me, at least until they get those Windows drivers out.
     
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  12. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Interesting quote/bug I found about the ESS Sabre dacs:

    http://inearspace.com/2015/10/18/yulong-da8ii-sabre-sound/
     
  13. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Worth a view/listen:
     
  14. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    If shitty mastering (heavy compression) is not addressed as well, how would increasing sample rates help?
     
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  15. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Someone should let Hans know about Schiit & Mike Moffet! (Think I will) ;)
     
  16. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Someone should tell him the difference between theories and theorems. The Nyquist theorem doesn't prove anything: it provides the basis on which digital sound is based. Without it... we're not even here.
     
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  17. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    What I got from him is that implementing the real world filter needed to handle the steep attenuation that red book requires, has problems. He points out that recording at higher sample rates eases the steepness requirement on the filter. This is all true, I don't see where the controversy is.

    Btw, I'm not trying to address any if his claims about MQA, which seems like money grab.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
  18. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Yes, I understand that it is, and even many of those who consider the whole terminology "high resolution audio" to be nothing but a marketing lie, do not necessarily stick at 41k being the ultimate admit that 48, or even 60 (possibly... 96) do provide advantages.

    The video, though, says nothing really. He starts out by saying that he has heard certain DACs and they sounded good, better and betterer and so. And that, which the appropriate props in the background (tape deck and an oscilloscope) is all. In other words... hot air.

    You could do better. A few people here could.
     
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  19. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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  20. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    So I did another listening session outside, speakers at stone wall facing nothingness (or in truth forest 70m away) with my Genelecs.
    Point was to enjoy the ending of summer and last rain free days here with some sonic bliss.

    But I also had Yggdrasil with me. DAC off with Soekris Dam 1021 (yeah, modded, what do you expect) was unavoidable.
    Setup was either dac --> EC2A3 --> speakers or in case of Dam I tried straight to the speakers too, but prefered EC2A3 in between. No USB gadgets were used, just a Thinkpad. Briefly Macbook Pro.

    Caveat: Yggdrasil was not continuously switched on for weeks, only sparingly because of frequent lightning storms here.

    The comparo:
    I was still expecting Yggdrasil to spank the Dam in most everything, and while it did so in some parts, I was actually dissapointed. I didn't expect them to differ as much either. Perhaps I'm so accustomed to the Dam sound I can't digest anything else now?
    First thing I noticed was that Yggdrasil sounded harsh in comparison (this is at least partly down to inadequate warm up).
    - Yggdrasil's soundstage is 2D in comparison to Dam, but better defined. Sounds are crystal clear and easy to follow in space, but the space it works with is like a 2m thick wall on the speakers plane vs Dams egg shaped soundstage that reaches far behind stone wall the speakers are seated on and behind the listener as well. The Yggdrasil sort of does that too to some degree, but it's not convincing. Yggdrasil's convincing soundstage is that 2m of sound wall on speakers plane.
    In short Dam has much better depth, more room between instruments yet also has less carved out soundscape.
    - Yggdrasil has some artificial warmth. Bass is more impactful in midbass vs Dam is more solid in sub bass. Yggdrasil feels a little compressed across the fr range, but no less slamming. It kinda feels like it compresses sounds toward loudness. It tricks listener at first to think of more macrodynamics, while it actually is just more loud parts closer to each other. This manifests in less breathing room and stickiness between sounds. The latter is not as evident in hp-s.

    These two dacs are much more close to each other from headphones. The Dam is smoother and a little fuzzier and the Yggdrasil still the edgier and sharper, but only slightly. edit: With totl tube amp with something like HD800 Yggdrasil will be more resolving of low level sounds (trails). Genelecs with its internal amps are ultimately gimped. The decision for me with hp-s comes down to more about tonality (Dam) vs resolution (Yggdrasil).

    Would I have listened alone, I'd really doubt my sanity and disregard what I heard. Fortunately I was not alone.
    I had friends over who liked the Dam better most of the time as well with most music. My brother liked Yggdrasil better with some edm. One guy didn't know which dac he heard, so little or no bias towards favoring the DIY underdog from his part was in effect. Still not a proper blind test for objectivists out there. But that was not why we were there, either.

    The Dam looks to be sort of forgotten now with Schiit's latest very attractive prices. And for 99 out of 100 endgame can be found from Schiit lineup for as much or less money as diy options, minus the building effort. For me personally with interest in hands on tinkering the Dam is better choice and I encourage to pursue this for others like me.

    Addendum: The EC2A3 improved Dam's performance significantly. No apparent intrusive coloration was added, a pinch of slight wetness. In case of Genelecs, I'll gladly take it :p.
    On the plus side: soundstage got flat out 1.5x larger. Slam got much better.
    This is probably due to Dam's 625 ohm output. Simply too weak drive for 10k input of my speaker amps.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
    FlySweep, sphinxvc and Serious like this.
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